<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> My two cents... Alan Horkan wrote on 2005.08.01 10:09: <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Christopher Ellison wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 01:48:10 -0700 From: Christopher Ellison <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chris_ellison@hotmail.com"><chris_ellison@hotmail.com></a> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:clipart@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart@lists.freedesktop.org</a> Subject: [Clipart] Mailing List Configuration I know this is done with other lists. Can the list configuration options be set so that the reply-to field is always the list address? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Please search the web for Reply To considered harmful. I think it may have been discussed already on this list. </pre> </blockquote> For example, <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html">http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html</a> <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I would prefer if things were left as they are </pre> </blockquote> Okay...fine by me. <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">because it is better to accidentally mail one person offlist than to accidentally mail the whole list full of many people (by now we may well have hundreds of readers). </pre> </blockquote> In general, I agree. However, this is only a concern if a user approaches the list with the assumption or 'bias' that messages in a "mailing list" would not, by default, be sent to the mailing list. This assumption is completely arbitrary...but obviously, one that this group adheres to. I'll grant you, the email does come from someone rather than from the mailing list...so in this sense, replying to the person is more true to the normal sense of reply. However, I (but perhaps I am in the minority) have always thought of mail from mailing lists as "mail from a mailing list". So my replies should be "to the mailing list." <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Some email programs include an option that allow you to easily Reply to List and if your email program does not you might consider asking them to add it. </pre> </blockquote> I am not going to pretend to know email client usage percentages, but this article has some thoughts. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.clickz.com/experts/archives/em_mkt/infra/article.php/1428551">http://www.clickz.com/experts/archives/em_mkt/infra/article.php/1428551</a> Outlook, Outlook Express, Mozilla Mail, Thunderbird, Evolution?, Hotmail, AOL, Gmail...these are some of the clients that do not off a "reply to group/list". My guess is that this covers an extreme majority of the email client database out there. <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Most programs include a button for Reply All which is what I normally use. </pre> </blockquote> True, but I think this is absolutely redundant...I don't need to receive the message twice. <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I have made this mistake a couple times now. I see a message and naturally, hit reply----only the reply goes to the person who sent the message rather than to the list. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> I would really prefer if the list was left the way it is. The cure is worse than the problem. </pre> </blockquote> I am okay with that. Respectfully, I do disagree. I did read the article I linked to and I think the arguments against changing the reply-to address are poor. Many of the details in that article only make sense when you assume that the reply address shouldn't state the list name. It is border-line circular reasoning. I'll _briefly_ give my opinions on his summary. The summary of those arguments: <ul> <li>It violates the principle of minimal munging. ---I agree. </li> <li>It provides no benefit to the user of a reasonable mailer. ---Now, _that_ is arrogant (see the argument about "freedom of choice"). </li> <li>It limits a subscriber's freedom to choose how he or she will direct a response. ---Not really. If a user wants to reply only to the person, rather than the list, they can still do so. </li> <li>It actually reduces functionality for the user of a reasonable mailer. ---Sorry, but I don't think that "Elm" is a reasonable mailer. </li> <li>It removes important information, which can make it impossible to get back to the message sender. ---The email address of the sender is still present. But I can see, in rare cases, how this might be an issue. </li> <li>It penalizes the person with a reasonable mailer in order to coddle those running brain-dead software. ---Hah. I won't even comment. </li> <li>It violates the principle of least work because complicates the procedure for replying to messages. ---Hmm....perhaps this highlights my own bias. I approach mailing list in the same way I approach newsgroups. When I reply to a newsgroup, the message always goes to the group rather than the sender. Isn't the purpose behind a mailing list to mimic a newsgroup? Maybe not, but I've always treated them about the same. In that sense, I don't consider this "complicating" the procedure because I don't think the current way of responding to newsgroups is complicated at all. </li> <li>It violates the principle of least surprise because it changes the way a mailer works. Again, this how newsgroups (at least google, thunderbird, outlook...probably others) work by default. </li> <li>It violates the principle of least damage, and it encourages a failure mode that can be extremely embarrassing -- or worse. ---I guess. I don't think that it is a big issue if people expect the list to work in this manner. </li> <li>Your subscribers don't want you to do it. Or, at least the ones who have bothered to read the docs for their mailer don't want you to do it. ---This guy is funny. </li> </ul> I'm sure there are better arguments out there...I am convinced that one could reasonably choose to set up your list either way, and I think that many would agree. Besides, as one webpage pointed out: 'RFC822 specifies that this is exactly what the Reply-To header is for: A somewhat different use may be of some help to "text message teleconferencing" groups equipped with automatic distribution services: include the address of that service in the "Reply- To" field of all messages submitted to the teleconference; then participants can "reply" to conference submissions to guarantee the correct distribution of any submission of their own.' I wasn't aware that this was such a 'heated' topic, but my searches on google have shown me others. Not wanting to flame it more, I give in. Unchanged it is, Chris <blockquote cite="midPine.BSF.4.58L0.0508011802030.41123@gosset.maths.tcd.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> Sincerely Alan Horkan Inkscape <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://inkscape.org">http://inkscape.org</a> Abiword <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a> Dia <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://gnome.org/projects/dia/">http://gnome.org/projects/dia/</a> Open Clip Art <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://OpenClipArt.org">http://OpenClipArt.org</a> Alan's Diary <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/">http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/</a> _______________________________________________ clipart mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:clipart@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart</a> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>