<div style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Oleg Koptev <<a href="mailto:koptev.oleg@gmail.com">koptev.oleg@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">heh, our discussion seems to flood out beaches. btw — i need more money. 'Am I Evil? Yes, I Am!')) </blockquote></div> There's a difference between needing more money and being greedy. Money makes the world work the way it does. But people's/corporations selfishness (supposed need/want as opposed to what they actually need) and greed cause much suffering. Money is not evil. Using money is not evil. Needing more money is not evil. Ambition and wanting more money at the expense of other people is evil. There's a big difference between what people think they need and what they actually need. <blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"> John Olsen wrote: And that is your choice and the choice of all of us who contribute here. But the key is choice. No one forces anyone to sell anything; no forces anyone to give it away freely. Sometimes the cheapest way for me to get something is to buy it given that most important and scarce thing in my life - sometimes it's time, sometimes it is skill. But there is still a huge difference between giving and taking. Taking things that others are not offering freely is stealing, no matter how you justify it. If you can't find what you want for free that does not entitle you to take it. </blockquote> I think we are saying the same thing, or at least have a similar POV. What my objection is to some corporations forcing - yes, forcing - little business owners to shutdown. All because they put a link on their website. There isn't much choice for them. Admittedly, TPB probably is in the grey area, and is quite controversial - there are MANY contributing factors and so lots of different opinions, however I see the same pattern between Microsoft and others. Or in my country, Telecom. Large corporations that have monopolies on the market are not a good thing IMHO. But despite all this, I think there is too much emphasis on the negative aspects of these kinds of things (it's human nature to look at negative). I'm preaching the benefits of FSF, and PD clipart, hoping that when people *SEE* then they will change their habits. The more people we can get behind Inkscape....or Gimp even...the better over time they will get. It's seriously making me think of getting into programming or politics. There is too much corruptness. Someone needs to clean house. (lol I probably wont act on this, but I'm thinking along those lines.) <blockquote>Oleg wrote: if I cannot take it in anyway except take it from torrents/copy from friend?? </blockquote>For me, that depends on what I'm downloading. Copyrighted music, I can do without or I can go buy from somewhere - not necessarily in CD format. Many bands now have a website or front that the public can access mp3's or OGG files. Usually for fairly cheap. Understand that Torrents themselves are not wrong. That is like saying, "The Courier service or FedEx is evil/wrong!" No, it's just a delivery method. It's what your downloading that determines if you should or shouldn't. I don't judge anyone for downloading pirated stuff. Like John said it's their choice. But I say what are the consequences of doing so? Many people say "You could go to jail", but that is fear tactics. I approach it like this. While I do not agree that copying music is stealing, I think it is unfair on the artist who has poured his heart and soul, time (and money oftentimes) into making this piece of music, for me to take a copy. If I like it, him, her style of music, or even just to have their collection, I would financially support the artist. But I strongly oppose the middleman who takes 73% (arbitrary number) of profit, for the "privilege of handling" the music. Unfortunately, lots of people choose to go that way ( giving over their rights to large corporations that don't actually care about people, but gaining large amounts of money as quickly and strategically as possible). Because its a hard industry to achieve success in. But that brings me to my first point...How do you define success? What do you actually *NEED* as opposed to *WANT*. Me? I need a job to pay for my mortgage. I figured out that If I had a Million dollars I would put it in the bank, and live off the interest for the rest of my life (that's approx 30k a year of interest). I need a stable family. I need sex at least once a week. Well....that's a want really. I dont *NEED* it... I need air, and some food, and some clothes. Most everything else is a want. Gosh...I'm introspective today. -- Cheers Chovynz