My question is, What is the point of having an externalsource tag without the location? If you really want, I can provide numerous examples from the current OCAL site. People use the External Source Submit form without thinking, or without filling it in with the external source material. You and Papahishu are the exceptions that I know of. You guys actually put effort into your clipart uploads, and that is awesome. It does mean you have to know HMTL links, or copy and paste into the description, or even where to find the info. What I'm suggesting here is that we use some fields that we already have, and put them to good use, instead of lumping all info into the description. This idea means clipart is uploaded as normal, and the uploader gets credit for doing so. But if someone makes a "trackback", a feature not available on the OCAL site at the moment, - a sighting of where the clipart is used, AND/OR where the clipart comes from (in your case you'd probably use it lots for Wikipedia Commons, or the mentioned pdfs), then the information is collated and displayed automatically. They are stored separated to the clipart description. It means they can be sorted, searched and reproduced, and inserted later on, if we implement trackback/externalsource features or Metadata insertion. Having this data will enable research on who uses the clipart, and how. I'm approaching this from the POV of easiest usability for General Public, not people who know HTML, or are proper in attribution methods. i.e for my grandmother who is not computer or internet savvy. She would upload, but not know to put the source in the description (current use), nor would she know any HTML to make the link "pretty". If she used the external sources form then the only thing that gets added is externalsources tag, with no location. I'm suggesting we come from the other way. If someone uploads a clipart, it's usually considered "original". If they or someone else in the future makes a trackback, then the externalsource tag gets added to the clipart, and all the relevant info is stored, ready for regurgitation when needed. Not much changes on the external. This has copy and paste, that has copy and paste. Part of what what I'm suggesting is separation of good information from descriptions (like original author, locations clipart is used, external sources where this clipart is from.) Another part is attempting to use something that we already have the facilities for. We have trackback facilities; lets use them. This is one way I can think of, for using them. In everything I suggest, it may mean initial work or re-training, but in the end, the work is easier for everyone; Joe Public, Members, Librarians, and Admins alike. I'm not trying to make Web 2.0 OCAL, but better OCAL usability, ready for the future users. I hope you'll give this idea serious consideration. <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, John Olsen <<a href="mailto:johnny_automatic@mac.com">johnny_automatic@mac.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> On May 22, 2009, at 5:23 PM, <a href="mailto:clipart-request@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart-request@lists.freedesktop.org</a> wrote: > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 12:23:35 +1200 > From: chovynz <<a href="mailto:chovynz@gmail.com">chovynz@gmail.com</a>> > Subject: [Clipart] BETA OCAL: External sources/trackbacks visual > concept and ideas > To: "<a href="mailto:clipart@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart@lists.freedesktop.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:clipart@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart@lists.freedesktop.org</a>>, > Michael Krnac <<a href="mailto:michaelkrnac@googlemail.com">michaelkrnac@googlemail.com</a>>, Victor > <<a href="http://fourstones.net" target="_blank">fourstones.net</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> > Message-ID: > <<a href="mailto:9fc7fe2a0905221723x39c0164er2c615e6b05cf1c5c@mail.gmail.com">9fc7fe2a0905221723x39c0164er2c615e6b05cf1c5c@mail.gmail.com</a>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all > > For the Beta site, I have an idea for using trackbacks as a more > comprehensive "External Sources." > Please refer to the attached visual concept and continue reading. > > Idea Summary: Use Trackbacks as an External Sources form/data/ > information. > > > Suggested procedure for external sourced clipart: Upload the clipart > as a > normal one, via the Upload page. After it's uploaded, use the > Trackback/External Sources Javascript found underneath the clipart > in the > gallery view, to generate the external sources info. > > Who are these people who currently do not add links or info on where their art came from, that will do so with the proposed system? Take my workflow. I often go to Archive.org, find a suitable PDF of a book with good images. Then I use photoshop and Illustrator to make SVG files of the original art from the books. Sometimes its months before I get to the book, but when I do I have the PDF and can glean the title,author etc. from there. But this is effort on my end. If someone isn't keeping track of this then there is no way to deduce where these submissions come from. I may be missing something here, but it seems that this is just an elaborate replacement for those of us already doing it. For me, finding the actual link in Archive.org is a lot harder than just putting the original publishing info that proves it's PD into the submission data. Now for the recent clipart I just uploaded I could put the website for the coloring book it came from, and I did. Is the whole point of this just to save one copy and paste action? John Olsen _______________________________________________ clipart mailing list <a href="mailto:clipart@lists.freedesktop.org">clipart@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart" target="_blank">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart</a> </blockquote></div> -- Cheers Chovynz