I think this topic is important enough (and interesting enough, so far) that "Documentation of the Future" (meaning all the improve-docs ideas, not just the write-the-manual-first one) ought to be a panel in its own right, apart from "attracting new participants" ....<br> <br>And maybe it ought to be on day one, so we can workshop some of it on days 2+....<br><br>It's cool. LGM's definitely the place where new and unusual FOSS approaches ought to come out of the woodwork....<br><br> Nate<br><br><br><br><br><br>PS: ....<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/2/21 helen varley jamieson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> very interesting idea to write the manual first :) <br> <br> with UpStage, we are waiting for the release of a majorly altered & enhanced media management system, & as this means rewriting half the manual i thought, this is a good time to transfer the manual to flossmanuals; so i started it, then i stopped because the students who are doing the coding are behind schedule. however, now i think i might just go ahead & write it anyway (with others hopefully contributing) & point the students to it to to get them inspired & also perhaps pre-empt some things that might have needed to be changed later.<br> <br> h : )<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br> <br> On 21/02/11 7:30 AM, Christopher Adams wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Mushon, <div><br> </div> <div>That is a really fine and provocative suggestion on your part—to write about software that does not exist but should. It seeks the excluded middle between the Floss Manuals which are too perfunctory on the one hand and too presumptuous on the other <i>(An Open Web,</i> which I also worked on, being a species of the latter).</div> <div><br> </div> <div>LGM would be a great opportunity to see these possibilities played out.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>- Christopher</div> <div> <div><span style="font-size: 13.3px; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"> <div style="margin: 0pt 0pt 8px;"> <p style="margin: 0pt; color: rgb(128, 128, 128);"><br> <span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: small;">———</span><br> <span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: x-small;">christopher adams</span><span style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: helvetica; font-size: x-small;"><br> 86 186 1172 0021</span><br> <span style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: helvetica; font-size: x-small;">49 15 156 219931</span><br> <span style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: helvetica; font-size: x-small;">886 953 036 630</span><br> <span style="color: rgb(128, 128, 128); font-family: helvetica; font-size: x-small;">1 646 201 3335<br> <a href="http://chris.raysend.com" target="_self">chris.raysend.com</a></span></p> </div> <img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=bsp&ver=ohhl4rw8mbn4" height="1" width="1"></span></div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:41 PM, <a href="mailto:jon@rejon.org" target="_self">jon@rejon.org</a> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jon@rejon.org" target="_self">jon@rejon.org</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> I totally agree Mushon. Totally. Manuals are dead. Atrophied. Even<br> worse when they get printed.<br> <br> Yes, totally, make future manuals, then fill in the blanks to them.<br> <br> That is totally the approach I took in participating in the open web book:<br> <br> <a href="http://openweb.flossmanuals.net/" target="_self">http://openweb.flossmanuals.net/</a><br> <br> There is a book sprint in Toronto by adam on the web from the 7 -<br> 12...should talk with adam to see if possible to do one at LGM before<br> or after.<br> <br> So what would the future manual look like? Ideas for that?<br> <font color="#888888"><br> Jon<br> </font> <div> <div><br> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Mushon Zer-Aviv <<a href="mailto:mushonitp@gmail.com" target="_self">mushonitp@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> ><br> > On Feb 21, 2011, at 4:17, Gregory Pittman <<a href="mailto:gpittman@iglou.com" target="_self">gpittman@iglou.com</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> > All fodder for discussion at LGM. Certainly we need to get out of the dark<br> > ages of documentation as an afterthought.<br> ><br> > Greg<br> ><br> > This is actually a huge issue I recently discussed with Adam Hyde of Floss<br> > Manuals. FM was initially established to address a blind-spot for Floss —<br> > documentation. It developed the book sprint documentation methodology which<br> > I am sure you guys are familiar with.<br> > Last year I participated in "Collaborative Futures" the first book initiated<br> > by FM that was not documenting a procedure but describing the past, present<br> > and future of open networked collaboration. It was much much harder, but<br> > there was something there that really clicked. And after a second sprint on<br> > the book I actually think it's a quite recommended read. (and it is always<br> > available for further editing)<br> > What I proposed to Adam is that FM could start experimenting in writing<br> > manuals for software that was not developed yet. Basically asking "how would<br> > we like it to work?" before we say "this is how do you need to use it." This<br> > would actually be addressing another blind-spot for Floss which is<br> > strategy.<br> > I know Adam is really excited about this idea and maybe LGM could be the<br> > first place to try it out. Do consider it would probably not work the first<br> > time and would need some iterations but it could be a much needed<br> > intervention into a process that we all agree needs some challenging.<br> > The infrequent lurker,<br> > Mushon Zer-Aviv<br> > Mushon.com | Shual.com | @Mushon<br> </div> </div> <div>> _______________________________________________<br> > CREATE mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_self">CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br> > <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create" target="_self">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create</a><br> ><br> ><br> <br> <br> <br> </div> --<br> <div>Jon Phillips<br> <a href="http://rejon.org/" target="_self">http://rejon.org/</a> | <a href="http://fabricatorz.com/" target="_self">http://fabricatorz.com/</a><br> chat/skype: kidproto | irc: rejon<br> +1.415.830.3884 (global) | +1-510-499-0894 (sf)<br> </div> <div> <div>_______________________________________________<br> CREATE mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_self">CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create" target="_self">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create</a><br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> <pre><fieldset></fieldset> _______________________________________________ CREATE mailing list <a href="mailto:CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_self">CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create" target="_self">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> <br> </div></div><pre cols="72">-- ____________________________________________________________ helen varley jamieson: creative catalyst <a href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com" target="_self">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a> <a href="http://www.creative-catalyst.com" target="_self">http://www.creative-catalyst.com</a> <a href="http://www.avatarbodycollision.org" target="_self">http://www.avatarbodycollision.org</a> <a href="http://www.upstage.org.nz" target="_self">http://www.upstage.org.nz</a> ____________________________________________________________ </pre> </div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> CREATE mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org">CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create" target="_self">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>nathan.p.willis<br><a href="mailto:nwillis@glyphography.com">nwillis@glyphography.com</a><br>aim/ym/gtalk:n8willis<br><a href="http://identi.ca/n8">identi.ca/n8</a><br>