<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">2014/1/15 Femke Snelting <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:snelting@collectifs.net" target="_blank">snelting@collectifs.net</a>></span><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div class="im">On 15/01/14 01:47, Dave Crossland wrote:<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> RTA this time<div><div class="h5"><br> ><br> > On 14 Jan 2014 16:09, "Tobias Ellinghaus" <<a href="mailto:houz@gmx.de" target="_blank">houz@gmx.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:houz@gmx.de" target="_blank">houz@gmx.de</a>>> wrote:<br> > ><br> > > Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2014, 22:40:51 schrieb Andrew Chadwick:<br> > ><br> > > [...]<br> > ><br> > > > Codes of conduct are mostly just "don't be obnoxious; listen, respect,<br> > > > learn" written out in long form with some specifics about what's not<br> > > > to be tolerated. Granted, they say what shouldn't need to be said and<br> > > > are always written in the hope they don't have to be invoked; but they<br> > > > also publicly state that the organizers care about what happens to<br> > > > people at the conference and how welcome they feel.<br> > ><br> > > I don't know about you, but when I approach a group of people that have given<br> > > themselves rules like that my first thought would be "OMFG, do I really want to<br> > > get in touch with them? Terrible things must have happened there".<br> <br> That attitude is a fine example of white male privilege.<br> <br> I'm a white male, and I want to welcome people who are not like me. If they want a coc, we should give them one. If PSF wants one to give us money to find their travel to join us, all the better.<br> <br> I think a coc also helps mitigate the tyranny of structurelessness.<br> <br> <a href="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness" target="_blank">http://en.m.wikipedia.org/<u></u>wiki/The_Tyranny_of_<u></u>Structurelessness</a><br> </div></div></blockquote> <br> You saved the day Dave -- thank you for bringing up that reference<br> <br> The short of it: I am for adopting the Python Code of conduct as-is (which is being developed and publicly discussed here by the way <a href="https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct" target="_blank">https://github.com/python/<u></u>pycon-code-of-conduct</a> ) and pick at the details of it's phrasing later.<br> </blockquote><div><br></div><div>In short, I fully agree.</div><div><br></div><div>LGM so far has been conducted with an implicit code of conduct and now we see the opportunity to have that code being explicit. Not only do I think it can do no harm, on the opposite I think it is a big plus. Things that go without saying go equally well when we voice them. And if not, then it means it’s time to voice them. Not to forget mentionning that the work is already done by others with whom we share the same views. People organising PyCon have worked hard to put this together in a simple, concise and clear manner.<br> </div><div><br></div><div>After reading the PSF CoC, I too believe that there is nothing there to scare anyone — unless of course those who would intentionaly want to digress such rules.</div><div><br></div><div>Due to my work schedule I won’t be able to attend the IRC meeting this afternoon. You have my vote in favor of adopting the PSF CoC as is. Let’s put a slot in the LGM program for discussing this further if we’d like to modify the phrasing to better fit our specific needs (I can only think for instance at the fact we would not reimburse entry fees as LGM is free to attend), if at all needed. I would support a positive wording but sometimes it’s difficult not to mention things that we would not accept. However I know we *do* have some artists writers in this community that could certainly please us with a wording of their own. But this would be discussed later on.</div> <div><br></div><div>Also, when some questions relate to me, I am always avalaible through public or private mail. If you can’t reach me, it’s because you didn’t try to!</div><div><br></div><div>One very good news is Google has accepted to be with us again this year and that is on top of what Mario has been discussing about GSoC students, so it’s a big plus! One thing about GSoC sponsorship for students: I would suggest to Carol that while a $500 limit per student is ok to draw the administrative line somewhere, we could still have the possibility to make that sponsorship flow from one student who needs less than $500 to another one who’d need more. Whithin Europe, arriving to Leipzig will very likely cost less (sometimes much less) than $500. From anywhere else, the cost will be higher (sometimes much higher). Having the possibility to use up what’s left from one student to help another one will definitely help get more people at no additionnal cost than what was budgetized.</div> <div><br></div><div>While I am at writing this email, sorry not to make it another thread but I would like that we add on the LGM website a Contact page so people know right away who’s in charge of what and who to contact and how when they need to. This is not something that needs to be discussed. It only needs to be done! </div> <div><br></div><div>Inspiration can be found here:</div><div><a href="http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2012/contact/">http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2012/contact/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Oh... back to the original thread... once the decision is made, we’re going to need to post our CoC on the website asap so I can direct PSF people to it for all to see.</div> <div><br></div><div>In order to prevent elegantly any legal issues that could arise in any jurisdiction, I would suggest we add a very common sentence in legal texts that would simply state (my wording is a pure translation from French so please adapt it so it’s proper English): "If any of the forementioned rules violates any law in the hosting country, this particular rule will not be enforced or take effect, however this will not affect any other rule and by no mean would result in making void the entire CoC". Something like that. And this is really to be *very* cautious and is meant as a relevant response to the concerns that have been raised by Sirko. I believe a sentence like that, if at all needed, would take care of the case. But I am not a lawyer.</div> <div><br></div><div>I sincerely hope that helps.</div><div><br></div><div>I wish you all a very good day and hope to read the IRC log tonight!</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div><br></div><div>Louis</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br> It would be great if the Python foundation would decide to support LGM again and I am not afraid a Code of conduct will scare away tight pants, discussions around it, or anyone for that matter.<br> <br> A publicly available statement about "how the organizers care about what happens to people at the conference and how welcome they feel" might bring some perspective to the tyranny of cluelessness that shows from this thread.<div class="HOEnZb"> <div class="h5"><br> <br> <br> F<br> ______________________________<u></u>_________________<br> CREATE mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create" target="_blank">http://lists.freedesktop.org/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/create</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>