<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div style=""><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">Dave Crossland <<a href="mailto:dave@lab6.com">dave@lab6.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>Re: [CREATE] otf•UI product vision, warm off the press...</b><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">21 Sep 2015 16:22:03 deber<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica';">peter sikking <<a href="mailto:peter@mmiworks.net">peter@mmiworks.net</a>>, Khaled Hosny <<a href="mailto:khaledhosny@eglug.org">khaledhosny@eglug.org</a>><br></span></div><br><div><p dir="ltr"><br> On Sep 21, 2015 9:27 AM, "peter sikking" <<a href="mailto:peter@mmiworks.net">peter@mmiworks.net</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> > Dave wrote:<br> ><br> > > btw: thinking through this, I do believe that the way the<br> > > character entry – character encoding – standard font tables +<br> > > mandatory (automatic) otf has come about, there are no cases<br> > > where user-controllable otf _must_ be used to get just the<br> > > correct glyph to display.<br> > ><br> > > if I am wrong about this, I would really appreciate a chat with<br> > > an expert in this field.<br> > ><br> > > I think this depends on what you mean by "correct" glyphs;<br> ><br> > true, I was not clear enough. I was really talking about that<br> > it does not need any otf to get a ‘5’ or a ‘b’ put in and<br> > displayed.<br> ><br> > for me it is possible to think of all the environments where<br> > there is near-zero typography knowledge (homes, offices, yeah<br> > just about anywhere) and to see that for _latin_ script there<br> > is are no cases where user-controllable otf _must_ be used to<br> > get just the correct glyph to display.<br> ><br> > after all, these people did get their 5s and bs in for decades.<br> ><br> > for non-latin scripts, I do not know this (note: user-controllable,<br> > not the automatic stuff).</p><p dir="ltr">Yes, I believe this is true for all scripts. Khaled, is this true for arabic?</p><p dir="ltr">> > I think 'unreadable' is an overstatement<br> ><br> > in usability terms (context: doing a convincing presentation)<br> > it is a goner.<br> ><br> > > (Of course, a program could have some 'smart' features to activate optional OpenType features when available, such as detecting a col of numbers, the availability of a tnum feature in the font, and thus activating it.)<br> ><br> > right on: I was already thinking that a set of recommendations<br> > (only based on what is hard-as-nails in the otf standard) must<br> > be part of the deliverable. another one we discussed in the<br> > video session: turn all ligatures off when the letter-spacing is<br> > not the default.</p><p dir="ltr">Hmm. Maybe out of scope. But... There are a heap of conversions that a smart rich text editor is likely to do, eg change quote " to curly quotes, minus - to en/em dash, 3 periods ... to ellipsis, etc etc, which depend on the encoded glyphs being present in the font. </p><p dir="ltr">This relates to OT because, like OT, different languages have different typographic conventions, which OT can respond to also, so " may become《 instead, if the script/lang is Latin/French. </p><p dir="ltr">There are also some case responsive OT features which manual letter-spacing could collide with, being designed by the font developer for default letter spacing. </p><p dir="ltr">><br> > --ps<br> ><br> > designs interaction for creatives +<br> > solutions with a wide impact on society<br> ><br> > teacher, mentor, author, lecturer<br> > <a href="http://mmiworks.net/peter">http://mmiworks.net/peter</a><br> ><br> </p> </div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Monospace 821'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Monospace 821'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div> --ps<br><br> designs interaction for creatives +<br> solutions with a wide impact on society<br><br> teacher, mentor, author, lecturer<br> <a href="http://mmiworks.net/peter">http://mmiworks.net/peter</a><br></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></div> </div> <br></body></html>