Hi sorry for spamming I've discovered there's an xmlrpclib inside Python's standard library : <a href="http://docs.python.org/modindex.html">http://docs.python.org/modindex.html</a> => <a href="http://docs.python.org/lib/module-xmlrpclib.html">http://docs.python.org/lib/module-xmlrpclib.html</a> well anyway, I'd be glad to use the REST API, unless the SOAP API has many more features. I have a made a wiki site up for the project here : <a href="http://www.ece.fr/%7Eschroder/SoC2008/doku.php?id=blenderproject">http://www.ece.fr/~schroder/SoC2008/doku.php?id=blenderproject</a> Sincerely, Jonathan On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Jonathan-David SCHRODER <<a href="mailto:myselfhimself@free.fr">myselfhimself@free.fr</a>> wrote: > Hi ! >   >  Do you think that there could be more than 1 category level ? >  The REST api seems to show that there's only one level, and so does >  the feed view with all the xml files. >  If you want I could try and digg into the code myself and see how I >  could implement that with you... Or maybe you'll hophop my friend sit >  back, you've got other work to do. >   >  This is in some way, customizing work that I'd be supposed to do as >  part of my SoC. So please tell me, and I shall study and work on the >  code on SVN (where is the repository actually ?) >  I'd need more than 1 level of category (that is to say 2 for now : ) >  but this number may change). >  If I could customize something else, that would be the possibility to >  put search terms/regexps in the REST api. >  I should see if I need to add search criteria. >   >  I think I'll setup some wiki page somewhere on my personal web site >  domain first with what I'd need for the web site. >   >  Sincerely, >  Jonathan Schröder >   > > >  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Jonathan-David SCHRODER >  <<a href="mailto:myselfhimself@free.fr">myselfhimself@free.fr</a>> wrote: >  > Hi >  > >  > I thank you for your clear and detailed reply. >  > I hope that you do no mind if I think aloud. >  > In this mail, I think over the 3 protocol option you Frank said (within the" >  > == ... of my reflexion ===" boundaries) and then I pose some questions to >  > you and tell which api option I would prefer. >  > >  > === start of my reflexion === >  > as to option 1. with autogenerated feeds located at php page. >  > you say that is doesn't support searching, and a workaround for this would >  > be to create lots of ids. For example, I see on >  > <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php">http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php</a> the following variation of themes : >  > soundthemes,mousethemes,kdmthemes,amarokthemes,plasmathemes,iconthemes. >  >  What I would consider doing if ever I used this 1st option would be to have >  > lots of id names for example for materials : >  > materialswood,materialsmetal,materialsground,materialsglass,materialsnature... >  > one problem is we'd need a materials feed that would lead to this list of >  > materials. >  >  Because I do not want people in Blender to see all the different materials >  > types from the beginning. User will want to download more kinds of data >  > block than just materials : models, scripts, compositing nodes, logic >  > bricks, armature setups, textures. >  >  I think that in the end, we would need a lot of Ids which could make the >  > feed page too long to download when running Blender's assets manager. Unless >  > we cache that page locally and refresh once a day on the Blender's plug in >  > launch. >  >  There would not be a big problem from the web interface point of view to >  > have as many ideas, as what <a href="http://kde-looks.org">kde-looks.org</a> shows is that the web interface >  > categories map to the different ids or vice-versa. >  > >  > (+) on the client side : >  > - direct access to what to download with little xml browsing required >  > - script is easy to implement >  > - no authentication needed >  > - load distributed over many servers around the globe >  > >  > (-) on the client side : >  > - searching has to be done by the client script >  > - if users submit data, they'll have to way < 1 hour to see it up online >  > through the client script >  > - there needs do exist some file online or offline that tells which category >  > has which sub-categories=id names. This is awkward to have all the >  > subcategories on the same root in the feeds list though that's not a >  > problem. >  >  - there's no nb of items per page limit compared to the REST api (10 items >  > max / page and possibility to request which page to display by its number) >  > so this makes the client potentially download a lot (ie. imagine there a >  > lots of glass materials). Getting the N first items of a list would be ok >  > (ie : close the http xml download right from the moment when know we have >  > downloaded N elements), but as to the next N elements one would have to use >  > http resume support. >  > >  > as to option 2. >  > (+) on the client side : >  > - can get content/info without having for the script to browse through xml >  > hyperlinks, just make SOAP calls. >  > - if we use a SOAP library things are very easy >  >  I've found something in the dive into python book with wsdl >  > <a href="http://www.diveintopython.org/soap_web_services/google.html">http://www.diveintopython.org/soap_web_services/google.html</a> which makes >  > method calling extremely easy if a wsdl file exists, one problem is that >  > SOAPpy used there isn't in >  >  - one button click really corresponds to one web SOAP call. >  > - voting and searching implemented. >  > - sorting is not done by the client. >  > >  > (-) on the client side : >  > - authentication needed >  > - as to the SOAP capabilities on Python's side : Python's standard >  > distribution (and there's no soap library at all in the python's standard >  > distrib I think)... so I'd have to include the whole SOAPpy package inside >  > Blender releases which would push them to be "unofficial" because I doubt >  > that such an inclusion would be accepted. Or I'd implement the SOAPing with >  > xml.minidom and libhttp myself. Maybe, the blender script could, not contain >  > this package, and on the first run oblige the user to click on a "download >  > SOAPpy package now" which would make the script download and install the >  > package inside Blender's .blender/scripts/ directory. >  > I should talk about that to the Blender developpers maybe. I think from at >  > first thought that : it preferable not to increase the size of Blender >  > builds too much; it would be nice that the script (some scripts are packaged >  > with official Blender builds but they rarely - I think - depend on external >  > libraries) could work right way one run, not requiring to download a soap >  > library. >  >  - broadband internet connection is required >  > >  > as to option 3. >  > (+) >  > - easy to implement. Coding the client could be very evident. >  > - no real need for libs not present in a standard python distribution. >  >  - one click equals one internet call >  > - not really a need for a higher speed connection compared to SOAP. >  > - sorting is not done by the client >  > - voting and search implement. >  > >  > (-) >  > - authentication required >  > >  > === end of my reflexions == >  > >  > The requirement to authenticate for using a SOAP/REST interface is not a >  > burdain to users to me. What makes me a little reluctant to it though is >  > that login + password are sent in clear. Instead, why not send the user a >  > generated image with "garbled"/morphed text and ask him to type the >  > corresponding text ? Doing that kind of translation is maybe something that >  > bots can't do and this could spare people from signing up. >  >  I think that having to sign up for uploading contents would be a good >  > thing, so that what's posted is related to some user with with all his/her >  > details at hand for visitors. >  > >  > >  > "If someone sends 100 search requests a second my server is down." do you >  > mean for just one person sending 100 requests ? Or do you mean, that if >  > several people start flooding with searches at the same time, this will you >  > bring your server down ? >  > >  > How do you submit content ? on the ghns feed I can't find any upload url >  > (just a nouploadurl attribute...), and for the REST api contents I can fetch >  > I see no upload url attribute at all. I don't know as to the SOAP interface. >  >  Would that be compulsory to use the web interface form to upload things : >  > <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/content/add.php">http://www.kde-look.org/content/add.php</a> ? >  > >  > I'm interested in the REST API more than in the SOAP one because of the >  > external libraries requirement issue. So if I were to tell you to set >  > something up I would request the platform to have that first API. >  >  However, please do not setup something for blender yet. I've just written >  > to the bf-committers (bf=blender foundation) list. I'll let you know about >  > the outcome of the replies. >  > The mail I posted is here : >  > <a href="http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2008-April/020741.html">http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2008-April/020741.html</a> >  > >  > Sincerely, >  > Jonathan-david Schroder >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Frank Karlitschek <<a href="mailto:karlitschek@kde.org">karlitschek@kde.org</a>> >  > wrote: >  > > Hi Jonathan, >  > > >  > > sorry for the confusion. >  > > We are talking about three different interfaces here. >  > > >  > > 1. GHNS v1.0 >  > > I´m generating static xml files and distribute them, together with the >  > download files over the kde mirror network. This is done every hour. >  > > The files are accessed from the KDE Application over the host >  > <a href="http://download.kde.org">download.kde.org</a> which is doing roundrobin via DNS. >  > > >  > > You find the feeds here: >  > > >  > > <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php">http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php</a> >  > > >  > > This is used by most of the KDE applications at the moment. >  > > The benefit of this solution is that the load is distributed over lots of >  > high capacity servers all over the globe. Access to the content is possible >  > without authentication because a deny of service attack is very difficult. >  > > >  > > This could be used for blender too. But I´m not sure if we are allowed to >  > use the kde mirrors for blender content. >  > > >  > > 2. GHNS v2.0 >  > > The new Specification done my Josef. Also called DXS. >  > > It is using SOAP. It is quite powerful but also heavyweight on the server. >  > > The only serverside implementation I know is the one from Josef. >  > > I also plan to support the interface in the future but it is not >  > implemented yet. >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > 3. openDesktop.org REST >  > > The REST interface done by me. You find the details here: >  > > <a href="http://api.opendesktop.org">http://api.opendesktop.org</a> >  > > >  > > The interface is more powerfull than the GHNS v1.0 It is possible to >  > browse all the content from the sites and supports voting. I will also >  > implement searching in the near future. >  > > >  > > I can setup a new community website for blender in less than a week >  > together with a REST api for you. I can also integrate this website into the >  > openDesktop.org network so it is getting promotion and users fast. >  > > >  > > The problem is that this REST interface is vulnerable for deny of service >  > attacks or script kiddies. If someone sends 100 search requests a second my >  > server is down. >  > > Because of that access to this interface is only possible for >  > authenticated users or from dedicated IPs. >  > > >  > > Google, Yahoo, Amazon and eBay are doing the same because of the same >  > reason. >  > > >  > > >  > > So I´m not sure what to suggest. >  > > >  > > Interface 1 has the best performance. But it only supports downloading and >  > no searching. And you need server infrastructure. >  > > >  > > Interface 2 hast the most features. But I´m not sure if Josefs >  > Implementation is ready and if there is a community system. It also has the >  > deny of service problem. >  > > >  > > Interface 3 is only usable from authenticated users. I´m not sure if this >  > makes sense to require for blender users. >  > > >  > > >  > > What do you think? >  > > >  > > >  > > Best Regards >  > > Frank >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > On 09.04.2008, at 15:35, Jonathan-David SCHRODER wrote: >  > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > Hi again, >  > > > please forgive me for my last message that was missing words here and >  > there. >  > > > Thank you for you answer Josef. >  > > > Ok I'll try to show the Bf (blender foundation) that I'm already >  > tinkering with the scripts (this is what I've started doing, for real )and >  > that I'm getting advice on this list. >  > > > >  > > > I have studied some xml pages fetched thanks to the api. >  > > > Things look good. On this I have question, how is that possible to >  > submit new files to the server through the api ? Submit doesn't belong the 3 >  > functions list from <a href="http://api.kde-look.org">api.kde-look.org</a> . >  > > > Also, what's the difference between the data fetched thanks to the api >  > from : <a href="http://api.kde-look.org">api.kde-look.org</a> , and the data fetchable by browsing through xml >  > pages, starting from the ones mentionned here : >  > <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php">http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php</a> ? >  > > > I don't understand much how to find again the same categories listed on >  > <a href="http://api.opendesktop.org/V1/CATEGORIES">http://api.opendesktop.org/V1/CATEGORIES</a>, and on >  > <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php">http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php</a> . >  > > > >  > > > I've had a look at : >  > <a href="http://svn.ggzgamingzone.org/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/python/lib/sdlnewstuff.py?rev=head">http://svn.ggzgamingzone.org/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/python/lib/sdlnewstuff.py?rev=head</a> >  > . It uses the <a href="http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php">http://www.kde-look.org/help/ghns.php</a> interface with the >  > providers.xml files. To me, this interface could also be called a REST >  > interface somehow, because there's no SOAP, and it uses the download xml >  > -then- go to one of the hyperlinks steps which resemble what I've read about >  > REST. >  > > > I haven't been able to run the python script because my pygame install >  > on linux is weird (doing apt-get install pygame does install pygame but does >  > not setup the pythonpath to add pygame's folfers... looking on the web, this >  > seems to be an old deb. package bug while I'm using a much newer ubuntu >  > distribution...). Changing my pyhonpath the way I could guess does make >  > importing pygame work partly, but I still have problems finding some parts >  > of the pygame library... Maybe I'll purge the sdlnewstuff script from any >  > pygame related code and try to run it, though reading the code is enough to >  > understand what this script does with the ghns interface. >  > > > >  > > > I'd be ready to rewrite some python script using the REST interface, >  > maybe complementing what I could see with sdlnewstuff and making a python >  > only library to be used by any kind of software. >  > > > >  > > > Sincerely, >  > > > Jonathan-david Schröder >  > > > >  > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Josef Spillner <<a href="mailto:spillner@kde.org">spillner@kde.org</a>> >  > wrote: >  > > > Am Dienstag 08 April 2008 03:14:57 schrieb Jonathan-David SCHRODER: >  > > > > I've "met" on #blendercoders a blender developper interested in my >  > proposal >  > > > > (he had access to the SoC admin side for the blender foundation) >  > because he >  > > > > worked using mysql for blender files data blocks. >  > > > > He wants to talk more about the proposal with me in a few days. >  > > > >  > > > You can tell him that you could easily get advice on GHNS-specifics on >  > this >  > > > list even if someone from Blender becomes a mentor. >  > > > >  > > > > By then... I could have tried to use khotnewstuff, and maybe some >  > shell >  > > > > scripts I've seen on the repos to know that I can make the GHNS system >  > work >  > > > > somehow and start discovering more about it. >  > > > >  > > > It will give a positive view if you already tinker with the scripts and >  > > > servers prior to the application rating deadline. >  > > > >  > > > Josef >  > > > >  > > > P.S. You're always on CC during the whole mail thread. Are you >  > subscribed to >  > > > it now? We could drop the CC then. >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > -- >  > > > >  > > > <a href="http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself">http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself</a> >  > _______________________________________________ >  > > > ghns mailing list >  > > > <a href="mailto:ghns@lists.freedesktop.org">ghns@lists.freedesktop.org</a> >  > > > <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/ghns">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/ghns</a> >  > > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > -- >  > > Frank Karlitschek >  > > <a href="mailto:karlitschek@kde.org">karlitschek@kde.org</a> >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  > >  > -- >  > <a href="http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself">http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself</a> >   >   >   >  -- >  <a href="http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself">http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself</a> >   -- <a href="http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself">http://www.jaxtr.com/myselfhimself</a>