[gst-devel] tags and metadata
Thomas Vander Stichele
thomas at apestaart.org
Wed Jan 21 08:15:00 CET 2004
> > Let's not pretend this is the first time I bring this up. Let's not
> > pretend that you did not specifically ask for GStreamer 0.8 to be the
> > one to go into GNOME 2.6
> > Whether we like it or not, at the point we proposed that, we also forced
> > ourselves to make sure that the applications already in GNOME were
> > ported to 0.8 functionality-wise. I can somehow understand you not
> > wanting to do the work, and I don't mind. But it's something you should
> > have thought about when proposing it for GNOME 2.6. I'm not really sure
> > you've actually ever run nautilus-media based on previous comments on it
> > :)
> I still consider nautilus-media the most broken invention in the history
> of GStreamer and still fail to understand why something like this was ever
> included in Gnome.
I thought we could have passed beyond the point of making it personal.
First of all, you've never really given reasons for why you disliked
nautilus-media. Second, there are people who thought that nautilus
should be able to play audio files. If you're not one of those, then
fine - I also assume that you don't really use nautilus at all. But
you're not a GNOME person anyway, you're a GStreamer person.
> It's not part of what I consider GStreamer, so there was no consideration
> on my part about this package.
Well, tough break. You don't get to decide what goes into GNOME at
all. You did decide that GStreamer 0.8 was to be the platform for GNOME
2.6, and making that decision quite explicitly binds you to make sure
the apps inside of GNOME using GStreamer evolve with it. Ie, the moment
you decide "this goes into GNOME 2.6" is the moment the burden is on you
to make sure it actually supports the featureset of 2.4 and whatever
goes in in 2.6 on top of that.
> And its maintainer did not contact me
> with his specific issues until well after the API was frozen and
> tagging had already gone in for 2 months.
Its maintainer asked you *repeatedly* for your plans with the tagging
stuff, waiting for you to come up with something for a long time. He
didn't mind you taking your time because you said you wanted to work on
it alone. He was left in limbo for quite a long time not knowing what
direction you wanted it to be in. All of that was fine, even though I
didn't like it. You even stated yourself you grew tired of the tagging
stuff because you did it all alone, even to the point where you don't
want to work on it anymore. All fine. I don't mind at all.
What I don't understand is that, only two months after the API suddenly
drops into place, and having had the stuff that n-m uses deprecated, I
am the one who gets to find out that what you put into place doesn't
seem to replace the stuff you deprecated completely. That's fine too, I
want to work on it and help fix it. But don't pretend you didn't know
:) You're a lot smarter than that :) I'm pretty sure you knew all along
that nautilus-media wouldn't work anymore this way. I'm not sure if you
realize though how bad this whole mess is for GNOME's view on GStreamer
(we haven't been able to get the few apps in GNOME that depend on
GStreamer to work reliably for the past half year), and consequently for
GStreamer as a framework. Right now, it looks like metadata doesn't
even work for ogg files, and the streaminfo only works for ogg files
because I put it in. So I'm pretty sure you're aware that there are
Now, all of that doesn't matter one bit. I really don't care whether
you dislike nautilus-media, whether you understand what GNOME is about
and how it works, whether you think you're the only one who can design
or write something that's good. It doesn't matter at all. You can try
making this personal over and over again, but I'm beyond that point and
it's not going to work anymore.
The ONLY thing that matters today and that I care about is how I can fix
stuff so that it works again. I want to figure out what you intended to
do with the functionality that was already in GStreamer in 0.6. I want
to figure out how you think it should be done so that nautilus-media can
work again. I'm willing to code up whatever is necessary for it.
But make no mistake - the GStreamer that is going into GNOME will be one
that can support apps like gnome-sound-recorder and nautilus-media, even
if it means stuff will have to be reverted. Because that is what you
promised when you targetted GNOME 2.6, and it's a promise I intend us to
keep as a project.
As for the other part of the coin - whether or not nautilus-media,
gnome-sound-recorder, and so on are things that should be in the GNOME
desktop : I'm sure you know there are other ways than making sure they
cannot be kept uptodate to get that fixed. I know you are someone who
wants to do the right thing from the ground up, and I respect you for
it. So if you want nautilus-media out of GNOME, do it from the ground
up. Just don't be surprised when in the end it means there is no point
at all in having GStreamer be a part of GNOME.
Can we now shift the subject back to the PROGRAMMING questions I asked
please ? Tell me what to do.
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<-*- thomas (dot) apestaart (dot) org -*->
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because you're so disarming
and I'm caught in the midst of you
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