Hi, Below are the last exchanges about what LGM could/should be. We'd like to continue this thread using the dedicated LGM mailing list. I copied from "Pandora's Box" not to say that the previous discussion was not interesting! :-) Do we have everyone on board with this list already? I mean, the people that were Cc’ed in the thread are all registered? Ale can you confirm this? Cheers guys! Louis * * * I don't want to open up Pandora's Box, but now that a host location is confirmed, should we perhaps discuss the contents of the schedule? One of the things I've heard several times is that the various projects (eg GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together. Perhaps we have put too much emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing open blocks of hacking time. While I think the talks have been excellent, maybe it would be possible to do a *lot* more of them in lightning-talk format -- especially the "updates" and "demos"? In 2011 we had two-hour meeting blocks; perhaps that's just not enough for some developers to justify the trip. If we just had talks in the mornings (short and fast ones), and had all afternoon for working, perhaps the developer communities would find it more useful? Alternatively, if we were meeting in a venue that would allow us to keep a hacking room (or two) open all evening and all night, that also might help. Obviously making that work would depend a lot on the venue, and could be impractical in some. But the MeeGo conferences I have been to did that, and I think it was very successful. [Note that that's not a comment on the successfulness of the MeeGo project itself, which has had major problems with its corporate parents. But the conferences were great] Just my thoughts.... Nate * * * hi > I don't want to open up Pandora's Box, but now that a host location is > confirmed, should we perhaps discuss the contents of the schedule? > > One of the things I've heard several times is that the various > projects (eg GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together. Perhaps we > have put too much emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing > open blocks of hacking time. While I think the talks have been > excellent, maybe it would be possible to do a *lot* more of them in > lightning-talk format -- especially the "updates" and "demos"? In > 2011 we had two-hour meeting blocks; perhaps that's just not enough > for some developers to justify the trip. If we just had talks in the > mornings (short and fast ones), and had all afternoon for working, > perhaps the developer communities would find it more useful? my experience of last year, is that it's hard to convince the people that their talk would fit in a dozen of minutes. everybody would like 2 hours... (me too) and it was also hard to get people to do a real presentation which would be really interesting for the other devs. the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a talk that would show their project to the internet. (i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before the beginning of the lgm itself) about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in the morning... basically, switching the times would be imo ok: talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking (+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people in the community and not for the devs) and maybe a light get together at 6pm... for a drink or similar... > Alternatively, if we were meeting in a venue that would allow us to > keep a hacking room (or two) open all evening and all night, that > also might help. good idea (even if i tend to like the idea that people sleep at night...) i guess that the main venue will be close at night (universities normally close at 10pm or earlier) but we could look to a secondary venue for evening/night hacking... if possible at the same place or in a very cool place... let's find new ideas! ciao a.l.e ps.: do your really actively avoid to use the mailing list that i set up at create? * * * On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Nathan Willis <<a href="mailto:nwillis@glyphography.com">nwillis@glyphography.com</a>> wrote: > One of the things I've heard several times is that the various projects (eg > GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together. We don't do what? Of course we use LGM for that. It's just this year was too far for most people to attend. Everyone's excited about Vienna. > Perhaps we have put too much > emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing open blocks of hacking > time. While I think the talks have been excellent, maybe it would be > possible to do a *lot* more of them in lightning-talk format -- especially > the "updates" and "demos"? Agreed. Alexandre Prokoudine <a href="http://libregraphicsworld.org">http://libregraphicsworld.org</a> * * * On 10/06/2011 04:56 PM, Nathan Willis wrote: On 10/06/2011 03:54 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Nathan Willis<<a href="mailto:nwillis@glyphography.com">nwillis@glyphography.com</a>> wrote: One of the things I've heard several times is that the various projects (eg GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together. We don't do what? Of course we use LGM for that. It's just this year was too far for most people to attend. Everyone's excited about Vienna. Sorry, this may have just been an unclear choice of words; substitute "hack" or "work" if you will. I think that LGM is in the process of maturing as a meeting. The first several meetings had such great excitement, and full of various novelties of meetings between individual people and projects. Now things have come to a time when more thought should go into deciding what needs to be done or what can be done in this face-to-face situation that can't or doesn't happen otherwise. And as with this year, we should make some efforts to inject some fun into the meetings in a very intentional way. This having been said, this coming year we have the very new experience of a simultaneous meeting with Linuxwochen. For some this might portend the boring spectacle of explaining LGM to newbies, but my guess is that there will be some energy in Linuxwochen we can tap to ensure that everyone has an enjoyable experience. As far as hacking or working, this would seem to be a matter that those who might hack/work need to consider. Again, thinking ahead may be the answer. It isn't like we have no idea who is likely to attend. What are the great unsolved mysteries for more compatibility between projects? Let's not forget the showmanship of engineering some big announcement to be made public at LGM 2012 -- this is not patented or proprietary. Greg * * * Hi, On 10/06/2011 08:32 PM, ale rimoldi wrote: my experience of last year, is that it's hard to convince the people that their talk would fit in a dozen of minutes. everybody would like 2 hours... (me too) Everyone asks for more time, and then uses it poorly. Less time is what people need for presentations, and more preparation. Your typical keynote is between 15 and 30 minutes at bigger conferences - and they're the best one. Strip the filler! Get to the point! It's a sales pitch, not a pulpit with a captive audience. and it was also hard to get people to do a real presentation which would be really interesting for the other devs. It is hard because people don't think about other people, they think about themselves. The trick is to guide them to think about other people. the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a talk that would show their project to the internet. (i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before the beginning of the lgm itself) Nonono! Slides should not replace your presentation. Video is great, but a presentation is more like theatre, a sales pitch or stand-up than it is like sending someone a memo. The presence of the presenter *should* matter. about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in the morning... I agree on less talks. The original format was talks in the morning, after lunch, and to end the day. My idea was to provide sync points where people made a point of getting out of bed, meeting up before & after lunch, and before going out to dinner. That way, even if people were spread out during the morning and afternoon, we provided an environment which encouraged conversation between projects. Too many presentations breaks that cycle. basically, switching the times would be imo ok: talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking (+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people in the community and not for the devs) The devs are not people in the community? What community are you talking about? ps.: do your really actively avoid to use the mailing list that i set up at create? I guess you haven't sold it very well (example: what's the link? Who should be signed up? Where are the archives?) Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member <a href="mailto:dneary@gnome.org">dneary@gnome.org</a> Jabber: <a href="mailto:nearyd@gmail.com">nearyd@gmail.com</a> * * * hi about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in the morning... I agree on less talks. The original format was talks in the morning, after lunch, and to end the day. My idea was to provide sync points where people made a point of getting out of bed, meeting up before & after lunch, and before going out to dinner. That way, even if people were spread out during the morning and afternoon, we provided an environment which encouraged conversation between projects. Too many presentations breaks that cycle. imo, in the last (two?) LGM this didn't work too well. - people didn't get up in the morning (despite the talks being announced) - and imo, as a side effect of spreading the talks (and interesting visits) through the all day was, many people people started only attending their own project's presentations... personally, i liked how the talks were placed in the last 2/3 LGMs and we can go on with the same schema. but i have somehow the feeling that everything was a little bit cramped... so there is also room for trying another formula if we want... basically, switching the times would be imo ok: talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking (+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people in the community and not for the devs) The devs are not people in the community? What community are you talking about? the other way round: not the whole community is composed by developers or people deeply engaged in the project. what i meant were workshops for graphics artists or free software enthusiasts who want to get in touch with libre graphics or extend their knowledge. an example is last year's inkscape/openclipart workshop. ciao a.l.e * * * hi the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a talk that would show their project to the internet. (i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before the beginning of the lgm itself) Nonono! Slides should not replace your presentation. Video is great, but a presentation is more like theatre, a sales pitch or stand-up than it is like sending someone a memo. The presence of the presenter *should* matter. it was about the people actually preparing their presentation in advance (not the morning before the talk) /me included! :-) and people preparing their talk for the actual audience and not for the people watching the recordings from home... ciao a.l.e