[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 135871] Highlighting no fill is not the same as no fill; there is still direct formatting present according to paragraph style

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871

--- Comment #39 from Telesto <telesto at surfxs.nl> ---
Typed 'before' the collision 

(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #37)
I'm still trying 'grasp' the whole thing you're saying :-). Heiko uses
stereotype users once in a while to make an argument. In this case you have
people using Default PS styles (their is the default style & default style for
footer, which are set automatically) and are adjusting everything to their
needs using DF. There is also a group who tends to avoid DF as far as possible
and create the formatting they want with PS/CS.

If someone who avoids DF as far as possible to somebody who get is work done
with DF, you get a nice mess. 

There are 'to cases'. 
* DF formatting while typing. Turning bold on (CTRL+B) starting typing, Unbold
(Press CTRL+B) keeps going on with DF unbold (instead of disabled)

* DF at the end. Selecting a line of text, pressing bold/ followed by unbold.
(Text looks back to PS style, but it's actually DF).

Practice is of course that both are done together. Also there are plenty of
ways how DF can be introduced (say copy/paste RTF/HTML). You disable it in the
toolbar, but still DF formatting being present. 

Negative effects:
* The document being riddled with (function-less; and likely even unintended)DF
formatting in the XML (Thomas Lendo). This is not a visible problem; but plays
in the background.
* The ideal of quick Styles changes is practically undone in real life. You
have to use the a Style Inspector/Style viewer the get rid of the evil. Not as
small clean up, but as a Herculean task. So the advantage of PS is nearly gone.

-- 
The whole point is, unbold DF is invisible/pointless in an unbolded paragraph
style. Similar as no-fill is being pointless in a not-highlighted text. This
becomes only noticeable after PS change. Or walking through they document with
Style Inspector.

I'm still not exactly clear to me in what pitfall i'm trapping. Where the 'bad
idea' begins.. Following are examples i used.

1. Press CTRL+B
2. Type AAA
3. Press CTRL+B: result DF unbold for the up following text. Expected bold
disabled
4. Select AAA; press unbold again. Expected bold DF formatting removed of the
area AAA. Actually: unbolded (DF)

New document
1. Default PS Style -> Modify -> Font -> Enable Bold
2. Type AAA
3. Press CTRL+B: result DF unbold for the up following text (fine)
4. Select AAA
5. Press CTRL+B again: result DF bold for AAA. Expected: Removal of the unbold
DF

So they only thing I said was; if PS is unbolded, Pressing CTRL+B enables bold;
Press CTRL+B again and it get turned off, instead of unbold. The result will be
the same as always. This is only relevant for PS/CS

The question is of course what should happen here:
1. Open new document
2. Type AAA [SPACE] [CTRL+B] BBB [CTRL+B][SPACE] CCC
3. Default PS Style -> Modify -> Font -> Enable Bold -> what should happen with
DF formatting here. 
A) Nothing
AA-> What happens when selecting AAA and pressing BBB here (removal of bold or
unbold?). Naturally would be unbold.
B) Inverse (unbold)
C) DF should get removed (seems easier, but what if people messing around. So
enabling bold.. applying and resetting it to regular.. The DF would be gone.
Undesired, IMHO

I might have missed something; however I'm not seeing a clear issue with this
approach. Where this doesn't deliver the expected results. 

BTW, you might be misconceived by they way i presented this. I'm fan of getting
things done; I'm surely not structuring my formatting in advance. So I surely
don't think in document structures (i'm would even declare myself a Benjamin
user who wants to desired result on screen without caring about technicality's
). Or advanced knowledge of styles. 

The problem 'started' at the point where you want to try PS/CS. It simply
doesn't work because the document is riddled with DF. Which couldn't see in
advance (yes you can now). And the hidden DF isn't intended nor needed. 

I read the same problem n Luke & Thomas their comments. However, this plays not
only for simple toggle button.. but is also the case with font/ font size drop
down or the highlighting/font color. And those need slightly different
modification to get the same result as with the bold toggle button.

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