[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH] Make the toolbars not popping-up randomly

Christoph Noack christoph at dogmatux.com
Mon Nov 21 13:00:27 PST 2011

Hi Tim, Cor, Kendy!

I'm removing the UX list for the very moment, since this discussion
might be as annoying to some, as a jumping document would be ;-))) So
please take a deep breath ...

Tim, I don't know whether we had any real contact before, so a kind
hello from my side ... nice to (officially) meet you!

Am Montag, den 21.11.2011, 16:53 +0100 schrieb Tim Hardeck:
> On 11/21/2011 04:40 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
> > Jan Holesovsky wrote (21-11-11 16:25)
> >
> >> The problem with docking them there is that if you let the behavior as
> >> it is now (pop-up when you are in the bullet list / table / etc., and
> >> disappear when you leave that), then your document will be jumping left
> >> and right, which would be incredibly annoying :-(
> >
> > I know the effect.

> If the page wouldn't be rescaled though the side would be fine with me too.
> >
> >> That's why I thought of the 'context icons'.

The idea of context icons is good, tough we need to define the "context"
very carefully. Just to point out, a context hierarchy might easily end
up here:
      * Document
              * Page
                      * Table
                              * Paragraph
                                      * Character
                                              * Numbering

The structure above (most probably wrong from the code point-of-view,
but maybe good enough to cover what the user perceives) is the situation
the user might work in. Thus, the number of functionality to be
presented might easily eat up the available screen space.

Thus, we carefully have to cover:
      * cross-module functionality (e.g. settings, macros, ...)
      * generic and often used document specific functionality (e.g.
      * context specific functions - always available or valid almost
        anytime (e.g. page, fonts)
      * context specific functions - for embedded objects (e.g. tables,
        pictures, charts, ...)

Furthermore, we have to consider a selection of those being:
      * often used commands (maybe user defined)
      * manually added (e.g. via extensions)

Thus, in the current situation, I'd say that we might go with the "add
the toolbars to the bottom" approach and think a bit further about the
next step. Please see below :-)

> > Great idea - no objections from me against that. Just some extra work ;-)
> >
> And yes, Kendy's suggestion looks great although there have to be a
> fallback for full screen, higher zoom level and similar.

Instead of being a fallback, how about making more sane defaults and
adding highly context optimized features (the cream on top)? Just some
brainstorming ...

A very first step (an initial "cheap" solution) might be to add another
side pane which can accommodate the today's toolbars. If this toolbar is
visible / accessible all the time, no need for a jumping document -
quite the contrary, since the tools can be found in one place (follow
the link and scroll a bit down, please):
If we want to go a bit further, I'm sure Mirek will be able to offer
some very good ideas. He works on the so called "Citrus UI" ... I missed
the time to provide proper feedback (very sorry for that, especially
since it looks like a very promising start for LibreOffice), but Astron
did. So CCing both to keep them in the loop and kindly asking you to
have a look:

Even more ideas have been collected during the OOo Renaissance project
(that time, I was happy to help organizing that ... we never had the
chance for turning some ideas into reality):

@ Tim, Kendy, Cor: Do you think that is something we should look into

@ Mirek, Astron: Thank you for the great work that makes it easy to
simply refer to :-)


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