[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 139338] The distinction paragraph <-> Character direct formatting in style inspector seems a kind of pointless

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139338

--- Comment #14 from Telesto <telesto at surfxs.nl> ---
I will ask it in ask.. but doubt it to be having an answer in the direction of
interest. But well we see..

About wasting time. 
* I not forcing you to answer.. you pick your bugs yourself. OK, likely you are
one of those with most experience in this field. So you might be inclined to
answer

* And yes, I'm currently not to much restricted in time. So simply dropping it 
because of time restrictions (no) and yes stubborn; even when I have the
feeling being kept on the line. 

A large group would simply drop it. Having enough of it. Why wasting time on
this. I don't gain much by it. I don't use LibreOffice commercially. The way
I'm using LibreOffice surely not exceptional or regular which would justify me
to spend so much time on it. Why bother, could go for MSO or other editor too. 

* And obviously it costs me time too. I could have done something else. So that
effect surely mutual. But must admit, I don't dislike writing/arguing.  

The only thing is got some kind of hobby for looking for bugs/enhancements. And
I hope others will benefit from it in some way. 

(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #13)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #12)
> > Ouch, that was a little too harsh Mike
> 
> Indeed. If only Telesto could accept that when they do not understand an
> answer, that means a need to learn something, not keep insisting on own PoV
> along with stating own right to keep ignorant. It's OK when casual user gets
> confused with how to use bug tracker, and also how to interact when the
> problem is discussed; but when a #1 bug filer keeps showing the same
> inappropriate attitude, it's ... inappropriate.
> 

Please make a distinction between convinced I'm right <-> keep asking over and
over. I'm lacking information; this topic is going all directions except giving
an answer. It keeps dragging on for ever.. 

And the technical specifications don't describe you user should work with it.
Or what the idea behind it is. Only that it maybe written into the ODT format. 

Currently no hierarchical page styles are allowed because ODT format doesn't
handle the topic right now. This doesn't proof those hierarchical styles not
wanted/needed. It only means that the ODT format in current doesn't allow those
to be present.

I read pointer to a ODT specifications (sec) in the same way. Without additions
supporting argument this doesn't say anything to me. 

And the 'everything is a style' is kind of semantic battle. The dialog distinct
between 'Direct Formatting' at paragraph level and Character level (Style
Inspector). And has also Character Styles and Paragraph Styles dialog. So I use
that terminology. If the Development department needs more precise wordings
(instead of the GUI simplification) please translate it/read through my
wording. To get the topic. Visa versa. Answering must be done preferably in the
same n00b language. Throwing in who different paradigm is source for confusion. 

Side step: if M. Stahl did explain the correct anchoring behavior to me, on
terms of flys. This was likely very correct, but impossible for me to grasp. 
As I'm not used to look at document from 'flys' conceptualization.  And not
seen may bug reporters report their stuff in 'flys' terminology. QA/UX members
in general lack the knowledge of the depths of the underlying technical
technical aspects (as far I aware off). 

Yes I keep going about Paragraph DF formatting. As I don't see how the workflow
should be (from user perspective). As managing 'Paragraph DF" kind of hard. As
it being set 'at start of a paragraph'. You can't see it or smell it. 
And ask myself why is this - practically - needed next to Character DF. Also my
prior conception was that there was only Character DF and not Paragraph DF
(until Style Inspector came along). 

Yes, initial report was about something else. It's kind of a U-Turn based on
comment 0 and caption (looking at it from wrong perspective). Instead of asking
myself what's paragraph DF style for. It was why is the inspector showing that;
my mistake.. 

> (In reply to Telesto from comment #10)
> > 16.30.2 appears to
> > be about 'Paragraph Styles (styles!). And text style referencing to
> > "character style" (I guess)
> > 
> > I'm talking about the relevance of "Paragraph *Direct Formatting*" next to
> > "Character *Direct Formatting* ". I'm not talking about "paragraph styles".
> 
> See 3.15.3 <office:automatic-styles>:
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/OpenDocument-v1.3-part3-
> schema.html#element-office_automatic-styles for another technical
> description why description of styles is relevant to DF.

Still not answering the practical need for Direct formatting at PS level, IMHO

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