[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 143197] Writer: hidden link between list and chapter numbering

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143197

--- Comment #6 from ajlittoz <page74010-sf at yahoo.fr> ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)

I can't answer for the average user. I consider myself as an expert in using
Writer and I have clean ideas about typography (or I hope so).

The most difficult step for a newbie is to understand what defines in list in
Writer and what makes lists different from each other. A list is characterised
by a =list style=.

Paragraphs associated with the same list style are members of the same logical
list. Numbering may be restarted but all paragraphs nevertheless belong in the
same list. All will share the same numbering format (though the item text can
look different is the list style is associated with several paragraph styles).

Several logical lists are necessarily associated with different list styles.

One of these is chapter numbering. For safety, its list style is "internal"
(not listed in the side style pane) and therefore cannot be selected in
paragraph style configuration dialog. This eliminates a cause of confusion. You
must assign the paragraph style to an outline level in the specific chapter
numbering dialog.

What about the direct-format lists created with F12 or toolbar buttons?

Obviously, the clean list style mechanism has been tweaked to facilitate newbie
access to the feature. Contrary to explicitly styled lists, numbering
appearance can be changed item per item. All items are not part of a single
logical list and numbering can be changed from Format>Bullets & Numbering
without affecting all items, showing that they are split into "independent"
lists though they apparently share the same "style".

Compared to the rigorous definition of list through styles, this can even
confuse a newbie if a list was made "erratically" (items initially entered,
then some text with another list, then back to add more items to the first
list) as a modification of numbering properties will not show up on the full
"visual list" but only on the part where the cursor is.

The F12/toolbar button method may look like an easy way of creating lists, but
most newcomers/Word-switchers don't understand the underlying principle (to be
honest, it took me years to develop a satisfactory mental model, though I read
thoroughly the available documentation) and this makes even more difficult to
tune lists. The F12 method is acceptable only for one-shot short documents.

Unfortunately you can't request people reading first a dull caveat doc (to be
created) before using Writer. I fear there is no real solution to the problem
of list UI and "intuitiveness".

>So UX-wise we rather remove the CN dialog than B&N.

No. Chapter numbering is separate from list numbering (the style is "internal")
and must remain so to avoid subtle problems.

Also, CN had additional properties I'd like to see forwarded to lists. The most
valuable for me is the possibility to attach specific paragraph styles to
different levels. But this reverses the logic for list configuration. Presently
you attach a list style to a paragraph style, while my wish requires to attach
paragraph styles to a list style. This could break compatibility with existing
documents.

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