[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 135501] Change the default UI (see comment 67)

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501

--- Comment #125 from Telesto <telesto at surfxs.nl> ---
(In reply to Pedro from comment #121)
> (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #110)
> You are just inflating the list of required resources to suit your view of
> the discussion.
> Because quite frankly most of those are not required for a user. You are
> spouting what an ideally developed version of a Tabbed UI should look like
> from a dev perspective if it was developed from scratch, which would clearly
> NOT be the case here.

There are lots of different question/aspects to the Tabbed UI bar topic :-).
>From is a Tabbed UI needed, to being default, to implementation and budget.

Obviously the all topics are entangled. For example: seeing the Tabbed UI as
extra, means no resources need to allocated (time, budget). And those resources
can be used somewhere else. So related to competition with other issues and the
prioritization of those.

Also the amount of resources required depends on the complexity of the changes
to make the Tabbed UI work. Which again depends on what you want to archive
(What should the Tabbed UI be like?)

Ideally some proposal should be written regarding to requirements which the
Tabbed UI so meet (to be competitive), and translated into technical
specifications, making for making a CostEstimate for the framework part. So
having something concrete to discuses about. Warning: there is a risk the
proposal get rejected and a all for nothing feeling for the ones involved..

The current implementation (framework) has limitations (but I'm only have some
notion, not exact details). Say positioning of buttons, theming. The design
decisions of the current Tabbed UI are - in my perception - governed by
limitations. Those limitations start to bite more and more when adding
functionality. At least that's my understanding (but Andreas/Caolan/V Stuart
are better informed, I guess). 

There is pretty big risk that the Tabbed UI will outgrow the current framework.
Which means a total refactor of framework might be required. Which means lots
of stuff needs to be redone. And with the new framework new possibility's
arise, so old design decisions based on limitation need all to be reworked
again :-(

So I tend to prefer to use the "right" framework from the start; at some point
every framework will 'fail'. Instead of using some pre-existing framework which
already known for it's limitations.

And the framework should ideally support complex stuff seen in other Ribbons.
Put in other words, the framework should support to possibility to introduce
more advanced actions. If those aren't there from the start is pretty
obviously. You start with the fundamentals.. But at some point the end-user (or
designers) you want to do more.. and are stuck at death end of the framework is
to limited.

So before optimizing the Tabbed UI, it's necessary to be sure the frame-working 
underpinning the Tabbed UI (the engine') can do what it expected to do
long-term. If something totally new it's looking into a crystal ball, in this
it's more comparing with others. I dislike investing in something which isn't
future proof.

Which means listing the issues designers/developers ran into already. And
comparing Ribbons from other products with the Tabbed UI. To grasp what the
framework should capable of doing. 

Next few approaches should be investigated to the options.. How the "proper"
framework would look. Every framework has drawbacks by design (if its costs to
build , maintainability, functional limitations).

Obviously the choice can be to try to improve current Tabbed UI as far as
possible, because the other framework revision taking to long/being to
expensive. But this really should be a concisions decision :-). It will come
back at you at some point

Engineers can often build everything you want, within a reasonable time frame.
Budget is one of the biggest constrains if you want to outsource the work. 

--
I personally less into the Tabbed UI and I don't think it's 'better'. Its
simply different. But well I admit that lack of Ribbon/Tabbed UI doesn't help
the transition from MSO. Especially if you're accustomed to the Tabbed UI.
LibreOffice looks kind of outdated if are using MSO 2007 or later. So the
Community might be not growing as fast as it could. 
And commercially (eco-system partners) might be not the best UI to ship with
either. On the other hand, if there where major demand it would have been
changed long ago :-). At the point people start to need paying for something
the back-off.. The Toolbar UI being good enough. 

But well the Tabbed UI obviously better for touch screen usage (tablets and
such). But unsure where the technology is going. Touchscreens still a thing in
5 or 10 years?

-- 
You are receiving this mail because:
You are on the CC list for the bug.