[libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2023-Feb-15

[Eyal Rozenberg]

Announcement 30 hours before the session is not announcement in advance. 
People - who do not work on LibreOffice on a daily basis and may have 
all sorts of things going on in their life - cannot be expected to 
reply, let alone make themselves available, at 30-hours' notice. If it 
were, say, a week - then you could say there's notice in advance.

Also, again, there's a difference between one issue by a person coming 
up for discussion, and several, constituting most of the session.

As for the two topics - the shorthand minutes entries about them suggest 
that the two issues were not discussed seriously, IMNSHO. At any rate, I 
commented on the bug pages to address both new comments and the relevant 
parts of the session minutes.

Eyal



On 16/02/2023 9:07, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> the meeting agenda is always announced in advance. This time it was on 
> Wednesday what I assume to be possible for you. You could have sent a 
> notice to postpone a topic.
> 
> Flagging tickets as to-be-discussed sounds easy but adds noise to the 
> report and wouldn't solve your problem.
> 
> For the two topics from yesterday I think one was unanimously 
> resolved/NAB and the other considered to not benefit the modification. 
> Please don't understand input from UX as a gatekeeper to the 
> development, you are free to reopen tickets and seek for response from 
> other people.
> 
> Cheers,
> Heiko
> 
> On 15.02.23 22:41, Eyal Rozenberg wrote:
>> Heiko, you again scheduled bugs of mine for a discussion without 
>> taking a moment to check whether I can join the meeting.
>>
>> I asked you not to do that and I'm asking you again. This is unfair, 
>> especially after I've explicitly asked that you not do that.
>>
>> The treatment of these bugs is usually entirely different based on 
>> whether I attend the session or not. What seems to happen when I'm not 
>> there is that the case for the issue is not made seriously, and thus 
>> objections or claims which I would probably be able to convincingly 
>> rebut or disprove are stated and accepted with no retort or objection.
>>
>> Now, I won't deny that this is not something specific to bugs I file: 
>> A user who does not have design committee participant support from the 
>> get-go, and who does not attend a committee session, will often not 
>> have any participant serve as the advocate or champion for that bug / 
>> that user - and may not get a "fair shake" in the evaluation of their 
>> bug.
>>
>> The difference in my case that you know that I can occasionally - but 
>> not always nor most times - attend. And session agendae are announced 
>> just a single day in advance, and not on the relevant bug pages - so, 
>> not enough time for me to notice. Finally, it is usually the case that 
>> multiple bugs I have filed are placed on the agenda for the same 
>> session, i.e. there are "Eyal's filings sessions", which are scheduled 
>> without me being able to react.
>>
>> This is quite inappropriate and I again ask that you stop doing that. 
>> Either ping me before scheduling my filings, or make the announcement 
>> a good number of days in advance.
>>
>> Also, and for the benefit of other bug filers, it would not be a bad 
>> idea to post a comment on the pages of bugs which are about to come up 
>> in committee, about the upcoming committee session.
>>
>> Eyal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15/02/2023 22:21, Heiko Tietze wrote:
>>> Present: John, Cor, Heiko
>>> Comments: Stuart, John, Pedro, Rafael
>>>
>>> Tickets/Topics
>>>
>>>   * Styles Preview should be able to show a grid of list
>>>     styles (Tabbed UI)
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153525
>>>     + a "More..." button could open the Stylist in the
>>>       sidebar (Stuart, Heiko)
>>>     + could be a small expander button on the lower right edge (Cor)
>>>     + strong support for a Tabbed NB in general and completely
>>>       implemented features in particular (John, Pedro, Rafael)
>>>     + take the full space is easy to achieve, expanding into a list
>>>       might a bit more difficult
>>>     => do it
>>>
>>>   * Most bundled page styles are nonsensical and/or redundant
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153534
>>>     + every single page style has a use case (Cor)
>>>     + never had any problems with the list of page styles (John)
>>>     + the (small) list can also be filtered (Heiko)
>>>     => resolve WF/NAB
>>>
>>>   * Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600
>>>     + label and help is clear (John)
>>>     + labeling it "Next paragraph style" adds no information and
>>>       it's reasonably clear what the dialog/label is talking
>>>       about (Cor)
>>>     => resolve WF/NAB
>>>
>>>   * Editing:- Feature Request "go to - special" feature needed
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149933
>>>     + introduce function to search for special content like blanks,
>>>       constants etc. sounds like a good idea (Cor)
>>>     + would be a comfortable shortcut for many searches (Heiko)
>>>     + alternatively we could have a special entry in the sidebar
>>>       + would be inconsistent as blank evaluates data while the
>>>         existing Navigator options detect model content (Cor)
>>>     => do it
>>>
>>>   * Change "heading level" to "outline level"
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152605
>>>       + see comment 14 for (tentatively accepted) proposal
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153499
>>>       + use index level for index entry outlines
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153596
>>>       + see also ToC dialog
>>>     => consistency in naming is good, go for it
>>>
>>>   * Permit "No User Input" as a data validation which would then
>>>     permit filter sorting
>>>     + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149497
>>>     + reasonable request
>>>     + (Standard/Auto-) Filter work on protected sheets
>>>     + Sorting should work too, at least optional (Cor)
>>>     + afraid of data integrity issues aka references to a certain
>>>       cell that changes after sorting (Heiko)
>>>     + option should not be at data validation but at the
>>>       protect sheet dialog among the other exceptions (Heiko)
>>>       + has the drawback that it applies to the whole sheet (Cor)
>>>     => allow users to permit sorting
>>>
>