<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>
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<br><div><div>On Jan 19, 2011, at 10:09 PM, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Chris Murphy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lists@colorremedies.com">lists@colorremedies.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>ICC spec (7.2.5) identifies 'prtr' as an "Output Device" profile. So if you really do an RGB-based output device, then you could have a 'prtr' profile for it - but I am not aware of any in actual use.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I'm really confused. Every single desktop inkjet printer comes with such profiles.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not as output profiles they don't. They may have proofing/simulation profiles in RGB - but not an actual prtr. if you've got one, I'd love to see it...</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>These are not proofing/simulation profiles. They are output device class profiles. I have hundreds of them. ColorSync Utility reports them as:</div><div>Class: Output</div><div>Space: RGB</div><div>PCS: Lab</div><div><br></div><div>And iccToXML reports them as:</div><div><div> <ProfileDeviceClass>prtr</ProfileDeviceClass></div><div> <DataColourSpace>RGB </DataColourSpace></div><div><br></div><div>This is the same class as a GRACoL or SWOP press profile: prtr. The difference is just the colorspace is CMYK instead.</div><div><br></div></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>But that's exactly what's being used by Photoshop and Lightroom,</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As a SOURCE profile but not as a PRINTER profile - and not at print time.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No, if I'm a photographer printing my image from Lightroom the source profile is ProPhoto RGB which is class mntr, and the destination profile (the printer profile) I choose is EpsonStylusPro3880_3885_3890EpsonProofingPaperWhiteSemimatte which is class prtr and is RGB. It's an RGB to RGB conversion by the application, and it asks the OS to write out that prematched/preconverted data to a PDF print spool file and then tag it TWICE:</div><div><br></div><div>The image object is tagged EpsonStylusPro3880_3885_3890EpsonProofingPaperWhiteSemimatte.icc.</div><div><br></div><div>The OutputIntent is set to EpsonStylusPro3880_3885_3890EpsonProofingPaperWhiteSemimatte.icc.</div><div><br></div><div>Same prtr class RGB profile.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div> and dropped into the Mac OS PDF print spool file as an OutputIntent. It's an RGB-based OutputIntent. All of these desktop printers are treated as RGB 100% of the time when driven by the manufacturer's print driver.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not as OutputIntent. And even if it was, the OI is only used in a PDF/X file. It's ignored (as per spec) for any standard PDF.</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps you mean as a source profile - because that's what Quartz does.</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>It can does do both. It just doesn't ensure both the object tag (the source space) and the OutputIntent (destination space) are the same.</div><div><br></div><div>And regardless of whether the OutputIntent should be ignored, since the PDF isn't actually PDF/X, we are talking about Apple. They couldn't make it valid PDF/X and use version 4 ICC profiles anyway since they aren't allowed at least not in X-3.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Chris</div></body></html>