Richard - <div><br></div><div> I don't think Chris or Mike care about *you* - or about me, or about Scott or... or... they care about some hypothetical user. </div><div> The interesting thing is that Chris and zillions of other Apple users are making Adobe very rich, and Adobe lives off apps which have a VERY steep learning curve. In other words, we have a multi-billion dollar corp who is the real elephant in this room.</div> <div><br></div><div>Edmund<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Alastair M. Robinson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blackfive@fakenhamweb.co.uk">blackfive@fakenhamweb.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi,<div class="im"><br> <br> On 14/05/11 23:28, Chris Murphy wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Ridiculous conjecture and unsupportable in fact. There is no such thing now in any print dialog on any platform,<br> </blockquote> <br></div> Just because operating systems don't provide such controls as standard doesn't mean they don't exist.<br> Exhibit A: <a href="http://www.normankoren.com/Epson_2200_preferences_ColorMgmt.gif" target="_blank">http://www.normankoren.com/Epson_2200_preferences_ColorMgmt.gif</a><br> <br> Exhibit B: The PPD shipped with EFI Fiery servers allows the printing of CMYK with calibration only, or raw CMYK bypassing the calibration.<div class="im"><br> <br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> A disable ICC transform option in a print dialog can only mean disabled in the context of the print pipeline,<br> it cannot ensure upstream conversions have not occurred.<br> </blockquote> <br></div> Semantics - of course the print dialog can't dictate what an application does upstream, but on the other hand what business does an application have applying ICC transforms without being asked to? Is that really going to be a common enough occurrence to cause an issue? The only place I can see it being a problem is if an application only "speaks" one colourspace and the user's trying to print using another.<div class="im"> <br> <br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> We need the latter as well or the test chart is questionable (or useless). An option in a print dialog is inadequate.<br> Printing test charts is a special use case, and should have a known reliable application specific to the task that<br> uses a published and tested API that anyone else can use as well.<br> </blockquote> <br></div> Printing testcharts is indeed a special case, and an application specifically for printing testcharts would be a great idea. But has anyone volunteered to write and maintain one? And even if one existed, do I really have to use a specialist program if I want to print pre-targetted data? (I do that on a daily basis, by the way - it's not just a hypothetical question.) Note, further, that I can print pre-targeted data *now*, from any software that supports the appropriate colourspace, so losing that capability would be a major regression for me.<br> <br> All the best<br> --<br><font color="#888888"> Alastair M. Robinson</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br> _______________________________________________<br> openicc mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:openicc@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">openicc@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/openicc" target="_blank">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/openicc</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>