[Tango-artists] FW: An icon for GAMGI
cube at szypulka.com
Fri Apr 11 12:31:34 PDT 2008
Forward 3. Sorry, I forgot to forward them before.
From: Cube [mailto:cube at szypulka.com]
Sent: Freitag, 11. April 2008 21:03
To: 'Carlos Pereira'
Subject: RE: [Tango-artists] An icon for GAMGI
I know this might be weird and not really corresponding to the ideology of vector graphics (scalable, one file, many sizes), but Tango icons (and many others) are PIXEL-PERFECT, that means that an artist has to align nodes to the pixelgrid, otherwise the image will be blurry.
Taking a 32x32px icon and simply resizing it into 22x22 would completely destroy the whole pixelgrid-alignment. Therefore, I, as an artist, have to create EVERY size independently. I have to create the 48x48, then the 32x32, then the 22x22, finally the 16x16, which has just a few details, no shadow and so on (these are standard Tango sizes, but depending on the job, they can be changed, of course).
If you want me to create a >800x800 px image, it might be hard for me, as I'm specialized in creating small graphics such as icons, what doesn't mean I can't do it or that I'm not the right one for this. (not to be understood like bragging)
Tango isn't like taking a photograph. It's art, it's about creating a metaphor for an idea, presented usually by a program/software. In this case, the metaphor was already given (atoms aligned to a molecule). An icon will never (perhaps in 1/1000 cases) look photorealistic (and even that wouldn't mean it's a good one). Icons are created to be sketchy, to be like an arrow instead of "Go to the right".
I definitely would like to keep creating this icon, but if you think you found a better artist, please let me know whom.
Oh and thanks for the beer, but I'd rather prefer non-alcoholic drinks :P.
P.S. May I get you jabber or msn or whatever IM you have so that we can correspond more quickly?
MSN: kubasz at yahoo.com
GTalk: cubibubi at googlemail.com
IRC: (Freenode) ``Cube
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
From: Carlos Pereira [mailto:jose.carlos.pereira at ist.utl.pt]
Sent: Freitag, 11. April 2008 19:49
Subject: Re: [Tango-artists] An icon for GAMGI
Sorry for the delay, I have been busy,
In the meantime I took a long, good look at your icon.
Thank you very much for your work, I realize that you invested a
amount of time drawing all the spheres and all the multiple, two-color,
I have a couple of problems with this icon though.
If you think that my comments below are unreasonable (and perhaps they are)
please do not hesitate in saying so, I apologize for your time. But this
of love for me, so I really want it as good as possible, and nothing
less than that
will content me.
I feel embarrassed that you working hard on this, and perhaps we
cannot get it right. Anyway, read my comments and tell me what you
1) I think it would be better to start with the large image:
because small errors here will be negligible at small sizes. Moreover,
to have a nice vectorial file that works at large sizes means that futurely
we would be able to use it for all kind of representations, not just for
t-shirts, mugs, mousepads, etc... and because it is a vectorial file, a
large image should have essentially the same file size.
So I think your vectorial, scalable image at 845x845 pixels
should look at least as good as mine... and that is going to
be difficult to achieve... but after that we just have to scale
down to prepare all sort of beatiful icons and other symbols...
(in this case I don't think we would need special retouching
in small versions, 22x22 and 16x16, because this is essentially
a bunch of spheres and they scale down rather well).
1) Some spheres are not exactly at right position, check for example
the contour of the green sphere on the right, and the blue one. This
is not just a visual thing, it means the bond lengths and angles are
different thus changing the chemical molecular structure of glycine.
Doing this with the large image 845x845 would minimize all errors
positioning the spheres and its contours.
In case you have a simple way to recreate the spheres in a 3D space,
they have coordinates (the sphere radius is always 1.11 and I
used a orthographic projection to render the whole scene):
blue: x="-1.1944" y="-0.6462" z="0.6454"
green: x="-0.7282" y="0.7151" z="0.4001"
green: x="0.4135" y="0.7236" z="-0.5919"
red: x="0.9220" y="-0.4800" z="-1.1729"
grey: x="-1.6196" y="-1.2818" z="-0.1172"
grey: x="-0.6386" y="-1.5173" z="0.9595"
grey: x="-1.5524" y="1.3376" z="0.0062"
grey: x="-0.3923" y="1.1825" z="1.3420"
red: x="0.8791" y="1.8282" z="-0.8681"
grey: x="1.6698" y="-0.2503" z="-1.7958"
2) The spheres look flat, essentially 2D not 3D,
as they should, as GAMGI is a OpenGL full 3D app.
So all the nice, subtle color gradients that
characterize the spherical surfaces are gone...
the whole image looks artificial, as if it was prepared by a 2D graphic
package, as a superposition of 2D circles rather than a 3D structure,
representing a 3D chemistry package...
I know that this is the way most icons look, but representing
a 3D app which is supposed to do all sorts of 3D tricks, with
a 2D looking icon, is a bit heart disheartning...
3) Your colors look too light to me (of course this is the smallest
of the problems).
I used these four colors from the Tango palette:
blue: #3465a4 (sky blue, the pallete central color)
red: #cc0000 (scarlet red, the pallete central color)
green: #4e9a06 (chameleon, the pallete right color)
grey: #babdb6 (aluminium, the pallete right color)
(after adding a white directional light they
change slightly and get that nice subtle
shadowing over the curved surfaces),
that I like so much...
If after reading this you still want to go forward, of course
I will feel happy but at the same time, a bit anxious, because
I am not sure that we can achieve something that I will like...
And in that case, I prefear to have nice rasterized png icon images,
than Tango icons that look too much as 2D rather than 3D...
Anyway, next time you will be in Lisboa,
I will be more than happy to offer you a beer!
> I'm ready with a preview (perhaps even final?) version of the 48x48 px icon.
> Hope you'll like it, but I'd like to receive a HONEST feedback. (But taking a look at what you wrote tells me you will be honest :P).
> Yours, Jakub.
> MSN: kubasz at yahoo.com
> ICQ: 264595412
> AIM: aimcube
> Skype: cube_s
> Yahoo!IM: kubasz
> Xfire: cubibubi
> GTalk: cubibubi at googlemail.com
> GaduGadu: 11945489
> IRC: (Freenode) ``Cube
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Pereira [mailto:jose.carlos.pereira at ist.utl.pt]
> Sent: Donnerstag, 10. April 2008 21:37
> To: Cube
> Subject: Re: [Tango-artists] An icon for GAMGI
> Cube wrote:
>> Hola (hope this is correct in Portuguese)
>> I'll give it a try, but I can't promise it will look nice. OK?
> Olá! (Hola is Spanish..., many words are almost the same, many words are
> completely different...)
> Thank you for your help!
> Thank you also for your disclaimer. I am doing the same: I cannot
> promise that I will like the result, although I can promise that I will
> try hard!
> As GAMGI is a graphic visualization app, I think its icon should reflect
> the images rendered by the app itself. Moreover, I really like the png
> images supplied, and I like the ideia of using Glycine to represent
> GAMGI. In this sense, I would ask you to change as little as possible to
> the suppllied images, that were produced with GAMGI. Just enough to
> Tangonise the whole thing. Or if you hate it too much, perhaps you could
> prepare two options, one quite conservative and one where you would use
> all your creativity...
> Thanks again Jakub,
>> Yours, Jakub.
>> MSN: kubasz at yahoo.com
>> ICQ: 264595412
>> AIM: aimcube
>> Skype: cube_s
>> Yahoo!IM: kubasz
>> Xfire: cubibubi
>> GTalk: cubibubi at googlemail.com
>> GaduGadu: 11945489
>> IRC: (Freenode) ``Cube
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tango-artists-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org [mailto:tango-artists-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Pereira
>> Sent: Donnerstag, 10. April 2008 17:48
>> To: tango-artists at lists.freedesktop.org
>> Subject: [Tango-artists] An icon for GAMGI
>> I am developping GAMGI, http://www.gamgi.org, a GPL (GTK- and OpenGL-
>> based) application to construct, visualize and analyse atomic
>> structures, such as molecules, crystals, etc.
>> I created these reasterized transparent png icons, with Tango standard
>> from this raw image created with GAMGI:
>> The image shows Glycine, NH2CH2COOH, the smallest DNA
>> aminoacid that starts with a G letter, usually described in aminoacid
>> sequences as G only).
>> I created this image using the Tango color palette for the spheres,
>> before adding a white directional light from above, slightly from the left,
>> as Tango specification says (I keep the original file, which is in
>> GAMGI native XML vectorial format, in case modifications are needed).
>> Of course now I need to create a SVG version. My questions are,
>> what else needs to be done for this to be a Tango-like icon?
>> 1) do lights and colors look acceptable?
>> 2) what about naming? which labeling do I need to add?
>> this a scientific application, with keywords such as,
>> chemistry, physics, atomistic modelling, education (with application
>> also in materials science, biochemistry, geology, etc).
>> 3) Do I need to add a (1-pixel for small sizes?) contour all around?
>> 4) which applications are more suited to do the work? Inkscape?
>> What is the easiest way to recreate this rasterized image as vectorial
>> 5) what exactly should be in the directory containing the icon?
>> a SVG file, plus a 22x22 png file, plus a 16x16 png file?
>> some sort of script? a README? what else?
>> Unfortunately I don't know nothing about graphic design, so
>> be patient with me... If someone wants to help me on this of course, of
>> course I would be delighted. Note however, that this icon should be GPL,
>> not CC, and I suppose copyright should probably remain with me. Of
>> course contributors would be fully credited in the GAMGI authors page,
>> in the website and in the package documentation, something as (or
>> something else the contributor prefers):
>> John Smith, icon expert art work (with links to Tango, etc...)
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