<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Artsiom Anikeyenka <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arty.anikey@gmail.com" target="_blank">arty.anikey@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">That's absolutely right and I realize that very well. But you need to think of total newcomers (as I am). I like graphics and I decided to look around how that stuff works nowadays under the hood. To have a big picture, before I start implementing something on top of that. I don't know X11 and I don't want to know it (it's being replaced why learn it). And what wayland documentation provides is how wayland is going to replace X comparing both. This is good for olders but how am I (and other newcomers) supposed to get involved if I (they) want.<div>
<br></div><div>That's why I asked.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I completely agree on the need for documentation for newcomers. That's why I wrote my "The Linux Graphics Stack" post [0]. I've been working on a "sequel" to that article with interactive demos since February, and I'm slowly making progress.<br>
<br></div><div>However, the technologies we're trying to replace have evolved slowly over 30 years, and the problem space is big. It's entirely possible to come into development knowing nothing, but I feel like picking a specialization or task (for instance: I want to get my Wacom tablet to work on GIMP/Inkscape under Wayland) is better for a beginner than trying to learn every facet of the project from top to bottom (as I said, it's a huge endeavor: graphics, direct rendering, software rendering, modesetting, window management, input, devices, sessions, desktop components, and more), and then figure out what to do.<br>
<br></div><div>Also, it might be throwing you into the deep end, but try idling on the #wayland IRC channel on Freenode. A lot of development and discussion happens in there, and you'll get a pretty good grasp of what we're working on.<br>
</div><div><br>Also, while Wayland is destined to replace X11, some knowledge of X11 is somewhat expected if you want to be a full-stack engineer, since a lot of us came from an X11 background, understand X11's strengths and weaknesses, and are working on porting X11 applications, toolkits, and window managers/compositors. It will come up a lot in discussion.<br>
<br>It's certainly not something you have to have up-front knowledge of, and it's certainly something you can pick up on the side and ask questions about when relevant. But don't expect to count X11 out entirely.<br>
</div><div><br>[0] <a href="http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack/">http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack/</a><br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Wayland is just another layer between subsystems. How does it communicate with them? A simple picture showing wayland as a node of the graph of subsystems (or just singly-linked list maybe) would be really-really helpful because it would give a lot of info on what it is and why it's there. With that in mind understanding the code would also be easier.<br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br>The architecture page on the website [1] has a very high-level diagram of what's going on. Obviously, there's a lot more details, but this might get you to understand what's going on.<br>
<br></div><div>[1] <a href="http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html">http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html</a><br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><a href="http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntroductoryCourse/" target="_blank">http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntroductoryCourse/</a> - this is a good example of getting people involved.<br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div>Now I'm ready for starting to dig the code but it costed a lot of time.</div><div><br></div><div>Have a great day all.<br></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jstpierre@mecheye.net" target="_blank">jstpierre@mecheye.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Wayland has a lot of components: the code generator, the protocol, the client/server lib implementation, the design decisions we made to tie it all together. Yes, we aren't the greatest at documentation and we know that a lot is missing, but in general we assume experience with traditional toolkits, compositors/WMs, and in some cases, leftover knowledge from X11.<br>
<br></div><div>There's also Weston, the de facto, most feature-complete, reference compositor. That has input management, output management, rendering, protocol implementations, clients, etc.<br></div><div><br></div>
<div>
In order for us to help you through the codebase and improve documentation, we sort of need to know what pieces you're interested in, and what you're having trouble understanding.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:57 AM, Artsiom Anikeyenka <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arty.anikey@gmail.com" target="_blank">arty.anikey@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
<div dir="ltr">Hmmm, thanks, but I've seen those. I though maybe there is something more. Ok I guess the good question will be:<div><br></div><div>Do most of developers find it detailed and descriptive enough?<br><div>
<br></div><div><font color="#000000" face="liberation sans, Myriad, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Grande, Luxi Sans, Trebuchet MS, helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:18.0469px">I mean I'm still learning so maybe I just don't know enough to understand.</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="liberation sans, Myriad, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Grande, Luxi Sans, Trebuchet MS, helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:18.0469px"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="liberation sans, Myriad, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Grande, Luxi Sans, Trebuchet MS, helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:18.0469px">Thanks, and have a very good day :)</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="liberation sans, Myriad, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Grande, Luxi Sans, Trebuchet MS, helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:18.0469px"><br></span></font></div>
</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Bryce W. Harrington <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:b.harrington@samsung.com" target="_blank">b.harrington@samsung.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:32:09PM +0300, Artsiom Anikeyenka wrote:<br>
> Hi guys,<br>
><br>
> Is there a detailed documentation of wayland source code. Any good<br>
> visualization of the design? Are there any plans on adding/creating those?<br>
><br>
> Thanks and be good.<br>
<br>
</div></div><a href="http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html" target="_blank">http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/" target="_blank">http://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/</a><br>
<br>
The former includes a couple block diagrams.<br>
<br>
The latter includes the client and server API's and the protocol<br>
specification, which are generated from the wayland codebases.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Bryce</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></div></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br> Jasper<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br> Jasper<br>
</div></div>