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Randy Kramer rhkramer at
Fri Apr 18 05:17:20 PDT 2008

On Friday 18 April 2008 12:55 am, you wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 09:57 -0400, Randy Kramer wrote:
> > The reason(s) I suggest philosophy include:
> Philosophy is the secular counterpart to theology.
> It hardly seems appropriate for tools relating to
> contemplation of the Spirit, and in any case it would
> only be appropriate for certain sorts of application.

Quoting some other definitions of philosophy, this time from kdict (Webster 
1913)--see the 2nd note:

   1. Literally, the love of, inducing the search after, wisdom;
      in actual usage, the knowledge of phenomena as explained
      by, and resolved into, causes and reasons, powers and
      [1913 Webster]

   Note: When applied to any particular department of knowledge,
         philosophy denotes the general laws or principles under
         which all the subordinate phenomena or facts relating
         to that subject are comprehended. Thus philosophy, when
         applied to God and the divine government, is called
         theology; when applied to material objects, it is
         called physics; when it treats of man, it is called
         anthropology and psychology, with which are connected
         logic and ethics; when it treats of the necessary
         conceptions and relations by which philosophy is
         possible, it is called metaphysics.
         [1913 Webster]

   Note: "Philosophy has been defined: -- the science of things
         divine and human, and the causes in which they are
         contained; -- the science of effects by their causes;
         -- the science of sufficient reasons; -- the science of
         things possible, inasmuch as they are possible; -- the
         science of things evidently deduced from first
         principles; -- the science of truths sensible and
         abstract; -- the application of reason to its
         legitimate objects; -- the science of the relations of
         all knowledge to the necessary ends of human reason; --
         the science of the original form of the ego, or mental
         self; -- the science of science; -- the science of the
         absolute; -- the science of the absolute indifference
         of the ideal and real." --Sir W. Hamilton.
         [1913 Webster]

> One would not find (for example) a bible-themed game
> for small children under Philosophy.  Nor a program
> that issued a call for prayer at dawn.  I suppose
> that a "Ritual" category could exist alongside
> "Philosophy", and another for "Ministry", but what
> Ritual (religious practice) and Ministry (spreading a
> religion or faith) have in common is a belief in
> something spiritual, in contradistinction to philosophy,
> which describes and studies from outside.

Ahh, OK, I hadn't been thinking about programs to aid with Ritual or 
Ministry--I was thinking more of things like [Bible | Koran | ... ] study.

Hmm, ritual and ministry might almost be utilities (or use utilities, things 
like a PIM or sales management tool.  Maybe religion does have to be split 
into multiple categories--an education / (old style) philosophy related one 
for study and then something else for ritual and ministry.  

> Hope this helps...

Sure, it makes me more confused (but aware of some other issues) ;-)

Randy Kramer

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