[desktop entry spec] new FullName key
William Jon McCann
william.jon.mccann at gmail.com
Fri Aug 7 05:23:18 PDT 2009
(this time to the list)
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Christian Rose<menthos at menthos.com> wrote:
> On 8/7/09, William Jon McCann <william.jon.mccann at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Christian Rose<menthos at menthos.com> wrote:
>> > On 8/3/09, Shaun McCance <shaunm at gnome.org> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 09:41 +0300, John Tapsell wrote:
>> >> > > Not sure what you mean with 'supporting GenericName', but the current
>> >> > > GNOME HIG recommendations are the way they are precisely because of the
>> >> > > translatability concerns of combining Name and GenericName
>> >> > > programatically.
>> >> >
>> >> > Could someone give an example where programmatically combining would
>> >> > fail, if the combining was done as i18n("%1 %2") or even i18n("%1 -
>> >> > %2") ?
>> >> In languages that have case declensions, "%1 %2" and "%1 - %2"
>> >> could involve the GenericName being written differently. So
>> >> you might write "Epiphany - Web Browser", but "Epiphany Webo
>> >> Browsero". (Completely made up example, of course.)
>> >> You can't reliably translate GenericName to fit into one or
>> >> the other, because different implementations might decide to
>> >> display things differently.
>> > Another example would be Scandinavian languages like e.g. Swedish,
>> > where the definitive article is a suffix of the noun, and if and when
>> > you use a name to distinguish the noun, i.e. you refer to a specific
>> > instance of the noun, you have to use the definitive article. Doing
>> > otherwise would be incorrect.
>> > Examples:
>> > "Web Browser" (as in any web browser) == "Webbläsare"
>> > "Epiphany Web Browser" (as in *the* Epiphany web browser, not just any
>> > web browser) => "Webbläsaren Epiphany" (== "The Epiphany Web Browser")
>> > Just writing "Webbläsare Epiphany", i.e. the literal equivalent of
>> > "Epiphany Web Browser", would look extremely odd and incorrect in
>> > Swedish. The definitive article (suffix) needs to be there in Swedish
>> > if the name is there and we thus refer to a specific application.
>> > So, as always with localization, you just can't concatenate sentences
>> > or pieces of sentences and get a result. It has to be translated as a
>> > whole.
>> So can you explain why this argument also applies to i18n("%1 - %2")?
>> Is "Webbläsare - Epiphany" wrong? We aren't trying to say "The
>> Epiphany Web Browser" - we are trying to say Epiphany is a web
>> browser. (Ignoring the fact that browser is not the best term to
>> use). I don't see how this is the same as concatenation.
> "Webbläsare - Epiphany" or "Webbläsare (Epiphany)" is not wrong per
> se, it's just bad language style. I mean, in almost all cases you
> refer to browsers and other types of applications that belong to a
> specific category, and which you refer to by name, with a definite
> article. Especially when you are doing a listing of similar
> applications. This of course to some extent also applies to English.
So in a different message you said that "%1$s (%2$s)" could work.
Can you please explain why this is fundamentally different from "%1$s
- %2$s" ? This seems to be what Vincent is suggesting.
Also, if we were to use parenthesis in English (and I don't think we
should) we would want it to read "Ephiphany (Web Browser)".
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