<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Den 07-09-2011 02:02, Michael Pyne skrev: <blockquote cite="mid:3494986.Ma1HDfLdtt@midna" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 17:28:56 Anders Feder wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Den 06-09-2011 16:03, Michael Pyne skrev: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 12:58:33 Anders Feder wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Yes, but these tools has been available for years now and they still are not integrated in applications (at least not on the GNOME end). How do you propose to rectify this situation (other than to say: "improve thyself!" to the developers, which clearly is not accomplishing anything)? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Given that there already exist GNOME-centric tools for semantic data integration (i.e. Zeitgeist) it sounds like the work needs to be done on the application end, not by inventing /another/ semantic data framework. </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Does Zeitgeist have features for integration of semantic data? I thought it was just a timeline of events? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> What I talked about regarding Zeitgeist was based on browsing its website right before I sent the email. My understanding based on that was that Zeitgeist was a more full-fledged semantic framework than mere events. I can see from re-reading the description that it does indeed claim to be more of a semantic logging framework. With that said it certainly talks about many features which would be useful in a more generic semantic layer but you'd have to talk with someone more familiar with the library to see how far away it really is.</pre> </blockquote> I think Zeitgeist is fairly limited in that respect, though Tracker may be a bit better. But even Tracker only acts as a store (and in a somewhat limited way, there's parts of SPARQL it does not implement), not as an endpoint that will let you, say, query remote services. <blockquote cite="mid:3494986.Ma1HDfLdtt@midna" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I mean let's face it, the reason the job hasn't been done yet is because the job is enormous, not simply because the correct library hasn't been invented yet. This is all not helped by the fact that most developers have zero inclination to do the extra work to describe ontologies and use semantic layers (similar in my mind to the choice between using plain text files for simple config or using a full-blown SQL database). Simply making up a different backend/semantic interface is not going to help matters unless that new interface is /significantly easier/ to develop against (and then why not just port that interface over to the existing frameworks?) </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> What makes you think that the developers are willing to use the existing frameworks if only they were easier to use? The concerns I've heard over using e.g. Tracker as a backend have mainly been related to performance. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> That's actually a really good point, but I suppose my thought would be what would make Semantk have great performance that could not be implemented into Tracker or strigi/Nepomuk or similar?</pre> </blockquote> It would not be possible to attribute any performance to it, in that it would only be an interface specification - not an implementation. Implementation would be up to the application developers. For instance, Evolution might implement this thin interface over E-D-S. This would not require a complete rewrite of E-D-S, nor would it deprive Evolution of the performance characteristics it has with E-D-S as a backend. Once 'legacy' applications like Evolution is on board, frameworks such as Tracker become a lot more useful for new applications. But not before - right now there is a chicken-and-egg situation where new applications don't use Tracker because none of the big applications talk RDF anyway. <blockquote cite="mid:3494986.Ma1HDfLdtt@midna" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> Regards, - Michael Pyne</pre> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________ xdg mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg</a> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>