[Clipart] Contributors and moderation
jon at protofunk.org
Wed Mar 31 01:02:29 PST 2004
Completely agree Bryce.
We must KISS (uh...what)...
The groups of users is brilliant to allow people to form communities
around their images. Multiple packages fits the idea to cater to
different interested parties.
I also want to make sure that we keep the site/interface nice for people
who are not familiar with OSS. I really think that it should be all
about getting the best images, and thus normal linux/oss chat/jargon
might be better pushed onto the wiki.
I'm more concerned at this point in getting diverse submissions. I hope
we can get designers, artists, linux evangelists, cartoonists, and from
other communities than just OSS, to be involved.
But of course, KISS. I think we should just get a simple PHP site setup
that allows submitting SVG files, checks them, validates them and saves
to the page for now. Later, this can develop into something more complex
as the need arises.
Bryce, your other ideas sound brilliant...
On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 10:49, Bryce Harrington wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Ted Gould wrote:
> > Basically, groups are always started with good intentions by a group of
> > people who really want it to be successful. Then other people join with
> > different goals, and things go a little bit crazy. A good example of
> > this is Slashdot, who ended up implementing a rather sophisticated
> > rating system to handle the 'junk' submissions.
> This is definitely true that crap tends to leak in, even when everyone's
> intentions are of the best sort. One runs into this issue a lot with
> large scale game design. The magic number appears to be about 200-300
> people; lower than that, the group can self-regulate, but beyond and the
> issues described in the article start to dominate.
> As an example, in WorldForge we had an inherent trust that art and music
> media submitted was the original work of the submitter. However, as the
> number of media creators increased we got to a point where we found one
> contributor plagerizing music. I imagine this issue is one that the
> clipart project may someday need to deal with, as well; it is wise to
> identify a validation mechanism and means of addressment here at the
> outset, that can be employed when this occurs.
> For Wikipedia we had similar concerns, but more specifically about
> copyright infringement. For this we opted to make the requirements for
> submission be overt (via a contract-like agreement at time of
> submission), and includes a vetting mechanism that makes it possible to
> let the media developers do self-vetting and validation.
> Based on those experiences, an approach that might work better for us
> would be to encourage discrete clipart 'packages' rather than a single
> flat collection. Each collection would belong to a specific person or
> small group of people who can review and police the items within that
> collection for quality, legality, offensiveness, etc. Different
> collections could have different rules.
> Larger arch-collections can then be made by an individual selecting the
> set of collections that meet with a given criteria. For instance, one
> arch-collection might include only 'G' rated art, so only choose
> collections with matching policies. Essentially this is an indexing
> mechanism; 'indexing' is one of the proven strategies for sorting crap
> from quality. The indexer may even wish to assign scores to indicate
> how well the item matches the indexes' judgement criteria, if there's a
> lot of items.
> > I'm concerned that our clip-art repository may become victim to a
> > similar issue. Some will do it on purpose, they'll try to submit junk
> > that is just entirely unacceptable (which is something we should define
> > clearly). But, others will just make crummy clip-art. If the
> > repository doesn't maintain some amount of quality it will be useless
> > for everyone.
> > So, I guess I'm asking two questions:
> > 1) Do we need an 'acceptable use' policy that specifies what is
> > acceptable and what isn't? What should it include?
> > My response: Yes, we do. I think it should include:
> > -- Graphics are Public domain
> > -- SVG
> > -- Not intended to harm or offend as determined by?
> Yes, a policy is required for submission. This must include an
> affirmation that the work is either original art by the submitter, or
> that the submitter has written permission from the original artist to
> submit it to the repository as public domain.
> I'm unsure we want requirements related to offending people. It is hard
> to know what would be a major offense in one culture but no big deal in
> another. I think you're right that _intent_ is the key here, since
> something neutral in one culture may be offensive in another. Hmm...
> How about this: Instead of restricting offensive material we just
> require it to be correctly labelled. I.e., 'contains some nudity',
> 'contains nazi symbolism', 'contains widespread profanity', etc.
> This way, censorship is between the collection creator and users, not
> the responsibility of the overall clipart project. Further, it is
> synergistic with our metadata/indexing approach by generating additional
> information for searching/filtering on. And it can be much more finely
> grained than traditional rating systems - i.e., someone may find
> violence and blood offensive, but nudity perfectly okay.
> > 2) How do we police works that are in the repository? Do we need a
> > group that is in charge of this? What mechanisms are required to be
> > built in for this to occur? Is being able to roll back malicious
> > changes enough? Do we have a different set of what appears on the
> > webpage that what we expect distributions to ship? Do graphics need
> > ratings?
> I really advocate self-policing approaches, sort of like the wiki model,
> where the contributors are also the editors. Essentially, the
> philosophy is to give the users the tools and powers to manage and
> handle control of their community.
> There are two methods for doing this: Positive control (indexing) and
> negative control (censorship). The former is akin to the wiki approach;
> anyone can create an article of any sort, but only if the item is
> included on an index page (which by definition is highly reviewed by
> others) will it be directly accessible. CPAN uses a similar approach -
> anyone can submit Perl modules but they'll only be included in the index
> if they're Good Enough. Negative control is a filtering approach that
> excludes items that fail to meet certain conditions; Wikipedia includes
> provisions for admins to permanently delete abusive data as identified
> by editors; Slashdot's comment scoring/labeling system doesn't destroy
> anything, but poor quality items simply drop through the floor by
> getting low scores. Freshmeat uses a labeling system, plus admins to
> review each submission to keep out the crap.
> It's interesting to note that some systems have user-indexing with
> admin-censorship, whereas others have admin-indexing with
> user-censorship. It seems like it should be possible to take one of the
> user-indexing schemes and couple it with one of the user-censorship
> schemes to get a pretty much admin-less system. And probably it would
> be wise to limit this participation to 'core-group' such as by requiring
> that only people who have contributed acceptable items be allowed to
> create indexes or check/assign labels.
> Allowing contributors to set up indexes (ala CPAN or Wikipedia) gives
> the means of identifying quality from crap in a distributed fashion.
> For censoring we could use a labeling approach so that we can leave
> policing/filtering to the contributors themselves as well. Keeping
> things modularized into collections allows most of the conversation and
> collaboration to be done at the small group scale, to avoid the issues
> identified in that article.
> Finally, I think we need to be careful to Keep It Simple here at the
> start. I can imagine some really sophisticated software to implement
> the above ideas, but I think it would be a disservice to let the
> technology development sidetrack us from actually getting the ball
> rolling. So to start with, the simplest approach I can think of would
> be to put the collection tarballs on a file server, create indexes to
> them via Wiki pages, and inside each tarball include a text file with a
> list of labels that apply to it. The indexes can be maintained by
> anyone, the label list is maintained by the collection maintainer. When
> we surpass 100 collections we will probably want some more sophisticated
> software like a search/filter tool, a better upload manager, and a
> better way for writing indexes, but those can come later as we need
> them and people have time/interest to make them.
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> Clipart at freedesktop.org
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