[Clipart] openclipart 3.2, bugs, features and changelogs

[Jakub Jankiewicz]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:42:25 +0530
shirish शिरीष <shirishag75 at gmail.com> wrote:

> in-line :-
> 
> 2012/3/15 Jakub Jankiewicz <jcubic at onet.pl>:
> > Hi shirish
> 
> Hi Jakub,
> 
> > On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:44:40 +0530
> > shirish शिरीष <shirishag75 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > OCAL it's more like community of artist that use the site to connect
> > create remix and share clipart and other users that may use that
> > work.
> >
> > And generally there is more focus on the site and creating of
> > packages was dropped.
> 
> ok.
> 
> >>
> >> Finally though, there was a release today in Debian and came to
> >> know you guys are still good and around :)
> >
> > I didn't know about Debian packages don't know which version of
> > ocal it use, if they download all new clipart or what.
> >
> >>
> >> $ aptitude show openclipart-png
> >> Package: openclipart-png
> >> State: installed
> >> Automatically installed: yes
> >> Version: 2.0-1
> >> Priority: extra
> >> Section: graphics
> >> Maintainer: Martin Kelly <aomighty at gmail.com>
> >> Uncompressed Size: 655 M
> >> Suggests: gimp
> >> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
> >> Description: clip art in PNG format
> >> The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
> >> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
> >> purpose.
> >>
> >>  This package contains the images in Portable Network Graphics
> >> (PNG) format. Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
> >
> > Shit, another www site, we need to get rid of this url, the proper
> > url is http://openclipart.org
> >
> >>
> >> Tags: made-of::icons, role::app-data
> >>
> >> $ aptitude show openclipart-png=0.18+dfsg-12
> >> Package: openclipart-png
> >> State: not installed
> >> Automatically installed: yes
> >> Version: 0.18+dfsg-12
> >> Priority: extra
> >> Section: graphics
> >> Maintainer: Debian QA Group <packages at qa.debian.org>
> >> Uncompressed Size: 203 M
> >> Suggests: gimp
> >> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
> >> Description: clip art in PNG format
> >>  The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
> >> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
> >> purpose.
> >>
> >> This package contains the images in Portable Network Graphics (PNG)
> >> format. Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
> >>
> >> Tags: made-of::icons, role::app-data
> >>
> >> As can be seen the packages have tripled in size and there I see a
> >> problem. There is no way for a user as far I can tell to know which
> >> images are new and which images are from the previous release.
> >
> > this is not the OCAL problem but debian package that use clipart
> > from OCAL one if you want to know which one is new create a program
> > that will show new clipart
> >
> 
> Ok, then please pray tell me who is responsible for these two links :-
> 
> ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/openclipart/downloads/
> 
> and
> 
> http://openclipart.org/downloads/2.0/openclipart-2.0-full.zip
> 
> http://openclipart.org/downloads/0.19/openclipart-0.19.zip
> 
> This is from where the Debian maintainer just copied the archive. They
> don't add anything to it afaik.
> 
> I do see know that rejon did make a changelog ... sigh...
> 
> 2009-03-01  Jon Phillips  <jon at rejon.org>
> 
>         * *: imported all into packager/trunk in public SVN
> repository.
>         * VERSION: updated version to the latest!
> 
> 2005-11-12  Jon Phillips  <jon at rejon.org>
> 
>         * openclipart.7.gz: Added man page for the project.
> 
>         * VERSION: Updated to 0.18CVS.
> 
> I don't think a full-fledged program would have been required. Even if
> a simple diff by using cmptree [1] would have been used and the output
> shared as a listing that would have been enough to know what has been
> added or/and changed in the new collection or/and package .

A now I get it, so they only get gzip package and create deb package.

Then we need packages organized by tags or categories it will be hard to
do but we can do that when we fix tags in database (if you know
something about sql, tags are in one field separated by comma and every
tag should be in one row and there should be 2 more tables for that, so
we can generate proper tag cloud and browse tags) or add categories.

I think that we need packages but Jon (rejon) don't what them, we will
need to convince him that people want it and need it, he want to
people use the site.

> 
> 1. http://drdobbs.com/199103123
> 
> >> what I mean is, while OCAL (openclipart library) is and can be used
> >> almost anywhere, MOST (not all) people might use it to spice their
> >> presentations.
> >>
> >> And therein lies number of problems. Now most of them are about a
> >> release around a year or two old so might or might not be relevant.
> >>
> >> a. There is no browser :- While I could use some third-party image
> >> browser like eog or/and something else it is difficult to traverse.
> >> While in the short-term I don't think you guys could afford to
> >> think of some sort of browser or something but maybe something to
> >> think about in the medium term. I am thinking something which is
> >> specific to openclipart and the cliparts within (maybe it could be
> >> used to see comments if you are online or/and give feedback or
> >> something from within the image browser interface without using a
> >> real browser as well as connecting or/and learning something about
> >> the artist as well
> >> - his motivations and contact details perhaps .) Maybe people can
> >> look at opengameart.org and sort of collaborate and see if
> >> something can be spinned, don't know just an idea.
> >
> > if you don't like to use the browser write "ocal image viewer"
> > using our API, I think that inskcape use similar function, you can
> > add detail of the clipart, and proper "traverse".
> 
> hmm... not a programmer but definitely can give a shout about that.
> 
> > You can also tell that to people that maintain the package. We are
> > not maintainers of the debian and other packages we are working on
> > the site.
> 
> True as well. Maybe ask people within the community also. Who knows.
> 
> >> b. openclipart-libreoffice :- In fact one of the ways if
> >> openclipart-libreoffice is used then you can watch it within
> >> libreoffice > Tools > Gallery although the gallery itself leaves
> >> much to be desired. The info. about the package shows openclipart
> >> homepage so guess you are the guys maintaining that
> >> extension/add-on for libreoffice. Is there a roadmap for the next
> >> release of the tool, I may have some some ideas or maybe just take
> >> a look at what's cooking.
> >
> > AFAIK OCAL do not work on any packages that use clipart like debian,
> > they are, most likely, created by people that maintain the package.
> 
> ok, although I do see that openclipart and libreoffice combo are
> almost on all distributions.
> 
> See for instance :-
> 
> http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=libreoffice-openclipart&srodzaj=3&dist[]=17
> 
> http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/17689641/dir/mandrake_other/com/libreoffice-openclipart-3.4.5-1-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm.html
> 
> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=libreoffice-openclipart&project=LibreOffice%3AUnstable

So one more argument that we need packages. I talk with jon recently
about putting all clipart into a repo that users can checkout and
update so new clipart will show up every day, maybe in the future.

> 
> 
> >> c. Naming :- The biggest problem I found while going through the
> >> collections is the naming, rather than naming the collections from
> >> functional or descriptive point of view they are named
> >> contributor-wise. This is horrible waste of the user's time as he's
> >> not going to crawl through the whole archive to look for an image
> >> which he knows about but cannot find in the current scenario. Maybe
> >> tagging and some sort of interface to search (maybe ties with a.)
> >
> > Do you talk about the site or those packages? Packages are created
> > by people that have nothing to do this OCAL AFAIKT they are normal
> > users, they donwload clipart and create a package.
> 
> As said before they just download the package/collection which is
> already there and try to make it easy just so users don't have do it.
> 
> All the clipart on my system for e.g. resides on
> 
> /usr/share/openclipart/png and this is a listing it is showing
> something like :-
> 
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 00Inkscape
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 1in9ui5t
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 43ad5web
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 aaha
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 abadr
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 abraxasWD

now I understand your "collections" they are not collections but users
that uploaded the clipart package is simple folder where clipart are
uploaded and for the site they are user based, for other info we have
database.

> 
> Now these are just for informational purposes only.
> 
> Now lemme get into one of these directories.
> /usr/share/openclipart/png/00Inkscape$ ls
> 00Inkscape_skull_corneum.png
> 
> Ah so this directory has a skull .
> 
> What I am thinking about is instead of having names and directories
> under those names it would have been nicer/better if the names were
> something like
> 
> 'death' which showcases all the symbols which have the meaning of dead
> or something related to that. I know it would be hard because perhaps
> some sort of folksonomy or something would have to be defined or taken
> from somewhere but it would be good.
> 
> >> d.Changelog :- From the package sizes I was able to infer that
> >> there is new material but because of an absence of changelog I was
> >> unable to know what new categories or ideas have made in this
> >> release. Maybe some sort of changelog could be thought about. I
> >> know that while having changelogs made when people code in a VCS
> >> is trivial maybe something similar could be done when new
> >> collections are released (don't know). Either way more information
> >> would be good.
> >
> > So it seams that they are new once, it's good.
> 
> Shouldn't the 2.0 release have 1.8 release+  new stuff done by artists
> in the interim. My goal as before is to know and see the new stuff.
> 
> >> e. In many cases it is also painful to figure out who the author is
> >> and what (if any) contact details of the artist are.
> >
> > there will be no way to handle this ocal packages is usage of
> > clipart that are in Public Domain, it's like cloning without
> > attribution only image matter, If you want to see artist name the
> > site is the place.
> 
> ok.
> 
> >>
> >> f. libpng 0.15 :- Would the team needs to concern itself with the
> >> new libpng library in anyway ?
> >> http://libpng.org/pub/png/libpng.html
> >>
> >> I do know that at least debian is gonna do a huge libpng transition
> >> pretty soon which will translate to other debian-derivatives as
> >> well.
> >>
> >> http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/libpng1.5.html
> >>
> >> g. While I did see a donate button, I didn't see a donate page. It
> >> might be a good idea to put up a donate page and actually put some
> >> sort of price to some of the higher priority features . I know that
> >> the idea is to remain non-profit but having something for people to
> >> shoot for is perhaps good for the short-term as well as long-term.
> >> Maybe something can be worked out for both the developers who are
> >> working behind it as well as the artist.
> >
> > Good idea about money for the feature. I had idea about progress bar
> > like on pledgie.com have and attribution, maybe it will be
> > implemented in the future.
> 
> cool.
> 
> >> h. Social media :- I do see there has been some sort of
> >> half-hearted attempt to use twitter but perhaps having diaspora
> >> would be better as much of the audience within diaspora
> >> (http://joindiaspora.com) would be welcoming about openclipart and
> >> maybe be of help in developing somethings.
> >
> > We want to make OCAL more Social there is this blueprint you can add
> > your comments and ideas, like diaspora support (the same as for
> > other blueprints) I never use it myself, I heard that name once.
> > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openclipart/+spec/ocal-social
> > there are lots of planes for OCAL that we will implement step by
> > step.
> 
> ok will do that.
> 
> > For now all clipart are send to Facebook twitter and G+ (not sure
> > about that).
> >
> >>
> >> Overall while its good that such a resource like OCAL is there and
> >> you have ideas of putting new release, it sad in someways to see
> >> such a wonderful not being able to use in the most optimum way.
> >>
> >> Btw I did not talk about svg port simply for the fact that its
> >> double the size.
> >
> > But you have higher resolution - infinite one.
> >
>          true :)
> 
> >> $ aptitude show openclipart-svg
> >> Package: openclipart-svg
> >> State: not installed
> >> Version: 2.0-1
> >> Priority: extra
> >> Section: graphics
> >> Maintainer: Martin Kelly <aomighty at gmail.com>
> >> Uncompressed Size: 1,107 M
> >> Recommends: librsvg2-bin
> >> Suggests: ksvg, gimp-svg, inkscape, sodipodi, sketch
> >> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
> >> Description: clip art in SVG format
> >>  The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
> >> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
> >> purpose.
> >>
> >>  This package contains the images in Scalable Vector Graphic (SVG)
> >> format, which is an XML format approved by the W3C.
> >> Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
> >>
> >> Tags: made-of::icons, made-of::svg, role::app-data
> >>
> >> I do know though that there are benefits of SVG vs PNG as well.
> >>
> >> Now I could have probably put up some tickets on launchpad but
> >> didn't know if all of this makes sense or not. Maybe its better to
> >> shoot the breeze atm and if people see something worthwhile then
> >> will put up the tickets.
> >
> > As I said before check all blueprints and put your ideas there, if
> > you find something that there is not there you can create blueprint.
> 
> ok will do.
> 
> >>
> >> Till l8er.
> >
> > --
> > Jakub Jankiewicz
> > twitter: @jcubic
> > www: http://jcubic.pl
> 

--
Jakub Jankiewicz
twitter: @jcubic
www: http://jcubic.pl