[Clipart] OpenClipart and Debian.

Jon Phillips jon at rejon.org
Tue Jan 11 21:05:39 PST 2005

Daniel Carrera wrote:
> But what you are proposing is that each distributor look through 3,000 
> images (and growing) each time they update their file to makesure that 
> they aren't going doing anything illegal, or morally wrong.
> I don't think this is a reasonable proposal.
> You might like to think that OCAL is like a library, but truth is, it 
> isn't a public library, or a historical archive. And the German law says 
> that the current ocal distribution is illegal. And a lot of people would 
> be deeply offended by it. We have to be sensitive to these issues.
> I think ocal should at least try to addresss these concerns responsibly. 
> Removing the flag is certainly one option. Maybe there are others. But 
> it's important to accept that the issue is real. The Nazi flag is not 
> something you should take lightly. At least not in Germany.
> Let's consider some alternatives:
>  * Make two distributions. One with "everything" and one "clean".
>  * Make two distributions. A "core" one, and a "potential problems" one.
>  * Divide the archive into categories and make a different .tgz archive
>    for each. For example, someone might decide to not download
>    ocal-flags.tgz and ocal-company-logos.tgz

Sounds like a good proposal. Could you make a list of problematic images then 
for us so that we can react accordingly? I agree that it is good to work within 
law, but this is a tough value judgment as so many images would be illegal in so 
many different parts of the world.

> Whatever you do, do *something*.


> You don't have to do everything. You don't have to come up with a perfect 
> system. But I think that it's important to at least do a "reasonable" 
> effort to address the issue.
That is what I was trying to recommend. But there are some serious issues to 
deal with in WHO gets to decided what gets in and what doesn't get in that need 
to be discussed. I'm still curious what other people feel on the issue.

I don't think its fair to deny any imagery to our library, but do agree that to 
be included in distros we should provide an everything and then clean version. I 
can see how we would not want to include things that would be considered 
pornography in the US if we wanted to get included in some distros as 
well...anyway...more thoughts?


> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 08:14:41PM -0800, Jon Phillips wrote:
>>Daniel Carrera wrote:
>>>Hello everyone,
>>>Rene just mentioned that the Open clipart gallery is now in Debian Sid: 
>>>Now, they do have one serious concern, and that's the presence of the Nazi 
>>>flag in the gallery. It's not just a matter of political correctness or 
>>>sensitivity. This flag is illegal in Germany and possibly other countries.
>>>Is there any chance that this flag will be removed from the archive? Or 
>>>that there will be an alternate clipart download without it, or any other 
>>>problematic material that is found?
>>I don't have a problem with anyone removing any clip art from the final 
>>tarball, honestly. Our system will eventually allow for anyone to make 
>>their own packages. So, I'm not speaking for everyone, but that is my 
>>So, if they don't want the nazi flag, then take it out. I would just say 
>>that somewhere that the resulting package is a sampling of the clip art 
>>available at openclipart.org (as the archive is constantly growing anyhow).
>>Thoughts anyone else?
>>I think that the archive at openclipart.org can be the most broad amount of 
>>clip art. I would also say that our service is more akin to a public 
>>library, or another historical institution. I'm sure that there is a 
>>picture of a nazi flag in Germany at a library or in historical archives.
>>Now, are they actually asking us to provide packages that have things 
>>removed? I think that is a different matter. I think that what we are 
>>providing is but one sample of a tarball tha our site produces. Maybe this 
>>is similar to some open source project releasing their own SID or 
>>RPM...well the distro might actually want to tailor that a bit more to 
>>include in their distro, right?
>>Generally, I feel that we should be flex on these issues, as our main 
>>library will be the most general in inclusiveness and distros can pick and 
>>choose whatever they liek (plus, all the art is public domain...soooooo)...
>>Jon Phillips
>>USA PH 510.499.0894
>>jon at rejon.org
>>Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
>>Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
>>CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu)
>>Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)	
>>clipart mailing list
>>clipart at lists.freedesktop.org

Jon Phillips

USA PH 510.499.0894
jon at rejon.org

Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu)
Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)	

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