[Clipart] clipartbrowser 0.41

Jon Phillips jon at rejon.org
Mon Oct 31 07:36:11 PST 2005

On Tue, 2005-09-20 at 17:35 -0400, Greg Steffensen wrote:
> Ok, the clipartbrowser cvs module is now synched up again with the
> latest tarballs, and the cannonical download location for releases is
> now
> http://www.python.org/pypi/clipartbrowser
> (it used to be on Berlios).  If you download a release (they work
> better than ever :), install using "python setup.py install" (assuming
> you have the dependencies met).  The "easy_install" method mentioned
> earlier works too.

Cool...I still think you should do releases and use Inkscape's sf.net
space just for the sake of affiliation and encouraging other developers
who already have access to work with you.

Providing easy access to others is the key to getting more feedback and
others hacking on your projects...and in order to take advantage of
this, you should try to work in the community with the practices and
traditions that the majority of developers know.

For example, I can work on your app when you use standard
infrastructures, as I know standard Makefiles and packaging, but now am
discouraged from working on clipartbrowser because I don't have time to
learn "Yet Another Language."

How is the project going btw? I've been swamped in with new gigs --
teaching at sfai.edu and working at creativecommons.org


> On 9/20/05, Greg Steffensen <greg.steffensen at gmail.com> wrote:
>         I didn't explain the technical situtation with the install
>         method very well.  Basically, if I write a file "setup.py"
>         that defines certain information, users should be able to
>         execute "python setup.py install" to install the program
>         correctly, and I should be able to execute commands "python
>         setup.py bdist_win" to create actual win32 EXE files
>         containing pretty automated installer GUIs.  In addition,
>         users will be able to install the way I described in the
>         release email as well.  In general, setup.py uses the
>         "setuptools" which are the successor to the "distutils", which
>         is the distribution/installation tools included with python.
>         I'm still not certain whether I should use the setuptools or
>         the older distutils, and am figuring stuff like that out, but
>         they're both supposed to be the python-friendly replacement
>         for Makefiles, and I'm trying to reorganize the code to do
>         stuff the "correct" way.
>         Greg
>         On 9/20/05, Greg Steffensen <greg.steffensen at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 Hey, yeah, this is kinda what I was referring when I
>                 said that the packaging isn't as polished as it needs
>                 to be.  For what its worth, most of the changes (bug
>                 fixes, performance improvements) actually are
>                 committed to CVS; I just didn't commit commit the
>                 change in the install method simply because I was
>                 having trouble figuring out how to get files like
>                 COPYING, NEWS, etc. included using that method, and I
>                 didn't want to put a totally messed up version into
>                 CVS.  Basically, I actually really released more on a
>                 whim, not because I'd worked everything out, but
>                 because I'd gone too long without releasing code,
>                 wanted people to know that work was ongoing.  So, at a
>                 minimum, I should have indicated that this was
>                 definitely a development release.
>                 So, solutions... in terms of where formal releases
>                 (formal tarballs) should go, I actually think the
>                 python package index is definitely the correct
>                 place... its now the "official" place where the python
>                 folk reccomend that python projects be listed, and it
>                 will offer a number of technical advantages, including
>                 publication of new releases, and installation
>                 automation.  I'm very happy keeping CVS at Inkscape
>                 though (not that PyPI offers CVS anyway), and treating
>                 the code as a subproject of Inkscape.  But as long as
>                 it offers the ability to be installed standalone as
>                 well, I'd like to make standalone tarballs available
>                 from PyPI.  In general, I'm learning more about
>                 python, and am trying to make my practices for
>                 installation, etc. match accepted practice.
>                 I'll try to get CVS synched up with the current state
>                 of the project very soon; I'm still having some
>                 trouble with the python installation tools, and have
>                 sent an email to their mailing list for advice, but
>                 haven't heard back yet.  Once I know how to get the
>                 documentation files included, and where to put the
>                 main install file (setup.py), I'll get that committed
>                 and CVS will contain the official version of the code
>                 gain.  Again, I would have waited until this was done
>                 to release, but just felt bad about having gone too
>                 long without releasing already, and was overeager to
>                 get something out.
>                 Anyway, does this cover the stuff you were concerned
>                 about?  If not, let me know.  Also, you may recall
>                 that someone posted a link to a mockup for a very
>                 similar project that they'd found, and I replied that
>                 this was "very depressing" :).  I used that mockup to
>                 develop version 0.4, and emailed the designer (as the
>                 community suggested); he's finally written me back,
>                 and said he's interested in contributing, which rocks.
>                 Later,
>                 Greg
>                 On 9/19/05, Jon Phillips <jon at rejon.org> wrote:
>                         <offlist />
>                         On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 05:20 -0400, Greg
>                         Steffensen wrote:
>                         > I'm releasing another version of the clip
>                         art browser.  Lots of bug
>                         > fixes, some performance improvements, code
>                         cleanups, and a new 
>                         > installation procedure (yes, yet another).
>                         >
>                         > Installation is now 3 steps, and hopefully
>                         easier than ever:
>                         >
>                         > 1) Satisfy the dependencies of Python 2.4
>                         and PyGTK 2.6.
>                         >
>                         > 2) Download and run the following script,
>                         which installs the python 
>                         > setuptools:
>                         >
>                         >
>                         http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ez_setup.py
>                         > 
>                         > 3) Run "easy_install clipartbrowser"
>                         >
>                         > As you can see, I've switched the
>                         installation system from Makefiles 
>                         > to the python setuptools.  The setuptools
>                         are still under development
>                         > (they're apparently going to be included in
>                         python 2.5), and I'm still
>                         > very much learning how to use them, so the
>                         packaging isn't as polished 
>                         > as it needs to be, but this makes
>                         installation a breeze.  Eventually,
>                         > it should allow arbitrary python
>                         dependencies to be intelligently
>                         > installed as well using the same process.
>                         >
>                         > I'm still working on getting this integrated
>                         back into the Inkscape 
>                         > effects menu, that's next on the list.  As
>                         always, feedback greatly
>                         > appreciated.
>                         >
>                         Greg,
>                         I thought we were going to do the next release
>                         from Inkscape CVS? What
>                         you have done is a non-standard release of the
>                         project now that we 
>                         consolidated the code into Inkscape.
>                         Also, you have now used a non-standard
>                         approach to packaging which then
>                         again breaks what users and developers are use
>                         to.
>                         The major thing though is that we were going
>                         to do a solid release which 
>                         means you need to involve the people who would
>                         contribute to this in the
>                         release to help smooth out the bugs.
>                         Instead, now you have released from another
>                         location thus confusing
>                         users and developers more. The problem with
>                         this is that it is not 
>                         pro-community.
>                         Anyhow, I'm curious what you think and also
>                         want to get these things on
>                         track with the community.
>                         It is so great that you are rocking these
>                         changes and I'm so proud of
>                         what you are doing so I don't want to dismay
>                         you, but really I think the 
>                         next release has to be really on track with
>                         the community and we should
>                         coordinate it, push it out through the
>                         sourceforge system we have in
>                         place, and push the press release globally.
>                         Without these procedures, honestly, it is not
>                         very likely that others 
>                         will help on development nor use your work.
>                         So, lets talk some more and sort these things
>                         out.
>                         Jon
>                         --
>                         Jon Phillips
>                         San Francisco, CA
>                         USA PH 510.499.0894
>                         jon at rejon.org
>                         http://www.rejon.org
>                         MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto
>                         Jabber Chat: rejon at gristle.org
>                         IRC: rejon at irc.freenode.net
>                         Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
>                         Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
Jon Phillips

San Francisco, CA
USA PH 510.499.0894
jon at rejon.org

MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto
Jabber Chat: rejon at gristle.org
IRC: rejon at irc.freenode.net

Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)

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