[Clipart] [Fwd: Re: pro-community and the problems of the PublicDocument License and Clip Art]

Jon Phillips jon at rejon.org
Thu Oct 5 20:47:35 PDT 2006 

On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 15:28 -0600, Gerald Ganson wrote:
>  Jon - has this been confirmed ? I have a couple of questions ?
> 
> 1: Can I submit something to the contest (clipart) and then it will come
> over to OCAL once the contest ends as PD ?

They have said this, but yes, the licensing issue appears still on their
site...soooo....

> 2: Is there anything to stop a person from submitting to the contest
> clipart that was already submitted to OCAL as PD ?
> 
> Gerald G.

No, and this is what I would recommend to anyone who wants to submit
(and win that contest).

Jon

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: clipart-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org
> [mailto:clipart-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org] On Behalf Of Jon Phillips
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:14 PM
> To: clipart-list
> Subject: [Clipart] [Fwd: Re: pro-community and the problems of the
> PublicDocument License and Clip Art]
> 
> Here is a good followup from the sponsor of the OO.o and worldlabel clip
> art contest. It looks like all is well now and all clip art will be
> submitted to us...I'm following up on making sure it is public domain
> and they declare it as such...cool!
> 
> I also went ahead and told Russell yes to his donation/contribution of
> clip art as well! Very cool! Win Win!
> 
> Jon
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Russell Ossendryver <worldlabel at gmail.com>
> > To: Jon Phillips <jon at rejon.org>
> > Subject: Re: pro-community and the problems of the Public Document 
> > License and Clip Art
> > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:37:07 -0400
> > 
> > Hi Jon
> > 
> > I spoke with Scott Carr, co-lead at OO Doc project. He said it is 
> > their intention to bundle all the clipart they receive and send to 
> > OCAL also. He said they made many mistakes with this contest and the 
> > PDL license will have no effect on sending to OCAL.
> > 
> > I have some (not a lot) clipart I own, i got custom made, Country 
> > Graphic themes like attached, frames, dogs, faces... I can send to 
> > OCAL, however they are Jpeg and GIF. I guess they can be converted to 
> > PNG and put up.  Please let me know if you want me to send to you.
> > 
> > Take is easy
> > Peace
> > 
> > Russell
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 9/21/06, Russell Ossendryver <worldlabel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Jon
> > >
> > > Hope you having a great day.
> > >
> > > I agree 100% with everything you have said. I am all for Public
> Domain.
> > >
> > > Between you and me, the community should put pressure on Sun to make
> 
> > > OO a Mozilla type foundation. As a sponsor, (a small company) I do 
> > > not wish to increase the wealth of Sun only the community. I do 
> > > admire all the volenteers who dedicate there lives to making OO 
> > > suceessful and like to help them. A lot of them would like, OO to
> come out of the Sun.
> > >
> > > I woul like to see closer cooperation like MS Office has, a Clipart 
> > > Orgainizer" a plugin for OO tied to the OCAL should be developed?
> > >
> > > I have advised Louis of you displeasure with the 
> > > "go-it-alone-strategy" and he would like to talk with you: "Louis 
> > > Suarez-Potts" louis at openoffice.org
> > >
> > > I certainly will also try my best and get the Licencing for the 
> > > Clipart changed. It is probably late in the game now for it as I am 
> > > sure Sun would want to be involved. As advised the competition was a
> 
> > > rush,  not well organized and a learning expericence for all
> involved.
> > >
> > > Peace
> > >
> > > Russell
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/21/06, Jon Phillips <jon at rejon.org> wrote:
> > > > One of the ways you could really help make this project more 
> > > > community driven is to require all submissions for this OO.o 
> > > > project to be declared Public Domain.
> > > >
> > > > On the site's contest rules, there is a statement that submissions
> 
> > > > must use the SUN specific license, Public Document License, which 
> > > > looks like a SUN re-branding of the LGPL license, which is meant 
> > > > for source code and not CONTENT, unlike a Creative Commons license
> 
> > > > (which is for text, audio, video, etc). This is counter to simply 
> > > > releasing content into the public domain, like Open Clip Art 
> > > > Library does so a project like this can use the Open Clip Art 
> > > > Library graphics on this page without
> > > > problems: http://documentation.openoffice.org/ Basically,
> > > declaring the
> > > > clip into the Public Domain (not a license, but a declaration), 
> > > > one allows ANYONE to use the clip art and/or templates.
> > > >
> > > > It is very unfortunate this contest is using the SUN-only Public 
> > > > Document License, because yet again it confused the public with 
> > > > Public Domain, which is the dominate declaration for clip art 
> > > > files and basically WON'T let anyone use this OO.o clipart and 
> > > > templates outside of software that is Public Document 
> > > > License/LGPL...so its locked into the OpenOffice.org domain 
> > > > because nobody else uses Public Document License outside of SUN.
> > > >
> > > > So to sum it up:
> > > >
> > > > 1.) LGPL is meant for Source Code (and thus it is not engineered 
> > > > to stand up in a court of law for clip art and templates) and thus
> 
> > > > is not valid for non-software.
> > > >
> > > > Here is a snippet to prove this point from the LGPL license: "0. 
> > > > This License Agreement applies to any software library or other 
> > > > program which contains a notice placed by the copyright holder or 
> > > > other authorized party saying it may be distributed under the 
> > > > terms of this Lesser General Public License (also called "this 
> > > > License"). Each licensee is addressed as "you"."
> > > >
> > > > 2.) The Sun-only Public Document License encumbers submissions so 
> > > > that they can only be used in files that are public document 
> > > > licensed (basically Sun/OO.o projects or created by OO.o). So in 
> > > > effect, by using a clip art or template under this license and 
> > > > with Sun/OO.o, one must also license their document under this 
> > > > Public Document License, something that is very restrictive and
> most people will not understand.
> > > > I can discuss this more as well, as it is closest to the Creative 
> > > > Commons BY-SA (viral attribution license). Basically, the Sun-only
> 
> > > > Public Document License is restricting submissions to 
> > > > OpenOffice.org only.
> > > >
> > > > Proof of this viral nature of the Public Document License is here:
> 
> > > > "The Modifications which You create or to which You contribute are
> 
> > > > governed by the terms of this License, including without 
> > > > limitation Section 2.2 ("Contributor Grant"). The Documentation 
> > > > may be distributed only under the terms of this License or a 
> > > > future version of this License released in accordance with Section
> 
> > > > 5.0 ("Versions of the License"), and You must include a copy of 
> > > > this License with every copy of the Documentation You distribute. 
> > > > You may not offer or impose any terms that alter or restrict the 
> > > > applicable version of this License or the recipients' rights 
> > > > hereunder. However, You may include an additional document
> offering the additional rights described in Section 3.5 ("Required
> Notices")."
> > > >
> > > > It is probably too late to get this changed, but is one major way 
> > > > this contest could still work with the community. Anyhow, 
> > > > basically, I think this legal hurdle is a major stumbling block 
> > > > and hopefully you (and the other organizers) can address with the 
> > > > people you are working with at SUN over this project. I strongly 
> > > > urge you all to change the licensing to a non-viral license and 
> > > > hopefully to requiring artists to release to the public domain.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to discuss with you first before I proceed with opening 
> > > > this up to the larger community because this Public Document 
> > > > License basically hurts the users and the larger community and I 
> > > > need to make sure Open Clip Art Library artists know about this, 
> > > > because if anyone submits to this contest, they cannot submit to 
> > > > our project nor any other project unless they use this
> OpenOffice.org-only, Public Document license.
> > > >
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jon Phillips
> > > >
> > > > San Francisco, CA
> > > > USA PH 510.499.0894
> > > > jon at rejon.org
> > > > http://www.rejon.org
> > > >
> > > > MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto
> > > > Jabber Chat: rejon at gristle.org
> > > > IRC: rejon at irc.freenode.net
> > > >
> > > > Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
> > > > Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org ) Creative Commons 
> > > > (www.creativecommons.org) San Francisco Art Institute 
> > > > (www.sfai.edu)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> --
> Jon Phillips
> 
> San Francisco, CA
> USA PH 510.499.0894
> jon at rejon.org
> http://www.rejon.org
> 
> MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto
> Jabber Chat: rejon at gristle.org
> IRC: rejon at irc.freenode.net
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> 
-- 
Jon Phillips

San Francisco, CA
USA PH 510.499.0894
jon at rejon.org
http://www.rejon.org

MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto
Jabber Chat: rejon at gristle.org
IRC: rejon at irc.freenode.net

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