[Clipart] Logo should be removed.

chovynz chovynz at gmail.com
Wed Jul 14 22:46:39 PDT 2010

My mistake then. I thought you were offended by having the symbol as a 
part of the clipart/logo available as a Public Domain clipart on OCAL, 
based on a practising Odinist viewpoint.

I don't know how they are going to deal with the winner of this contest, 
as any company that uses the winner, as far as I know, can't copyright 
the winners logo.
I still don't see any grounds for removal of any of the submitted logos, 
let alone one that has deep meaning to a certain group of people and 
could be mistaken / misused. To use the swastika idea again, that is now 
recognised as the symbol for Nazi Germany under Hitler. The swastika 
originally wasn't used as that, but that's what it is recognised as now. 
If someone makes a FCRC logo with a swastika, it is still a valid logo 
entry, and one that cannot be removed from OCAL. Same thing with the 
"cross" - if someone were to make a FCRC logo with the cross as a part 
of it, it's still a valid logo entry - despite being "misused" from a 
Christian perspective and offensive to some.

I can't consider removing the clipart because:

    * As far as a OCAL Librarian is concerned, it's valid clipart.
      Religious grounds is not a valid reason for clipart removal. Only
      copyright infringement and trademark issues is, and this does neither.
    * I'm not a judge in the contest, I have no say for what's valid in
      the contest, I can only "judge" what is valid as Public Domain for
      OCAL. I think you are asking the wrong people for the removal of
      this clipart for contest consideration. OCAL Members, Librarians
      (and admins) have no say in what's to be considered - only the
      judges of the contest.
    * I don't know how they are going to trademark/copyright the winning
      clipart of the contest, because all of the cliparts were submitted
      under public domain. I think that was an oversight that wasn't
      properly thought through from the beginning - unless they propose
      to continue using it as Public Domain for their company logo.

In all senses of the word, I find this clipart to be valid Public Domain 
Clipart. Anything else is, not for me to say. I understand your request, 
but it is still not for me to say, beyond my capabilities as an Open 
Clipart Librarian.

Is my point making more sense? You can only try to convince the uploader 
to remove it, and the judges to not judge it - based on your criteria. 
OCAL won't remove it from their Library, and it would be wrong for a 
Librarian to remove the contest status, since the logo was designed and 
uploaded specifically for that purpose.


On 15/07/2010 4:13 p.m., Shawn Evans wrote:
> Perhaps my request is not coming across clearly.
> My request is that the entry using the Valknot for a company logo that
> is intended to be used more than one year should be removed. Not that
> it should be removed from OCAL. I think many symbols should be done
> for ocal.. I haven't submitted much since my cordless phone, but I've
> also been rather swamped... like I am sure many have.
> So to clarify, I am requesting that the valknot logo entry be removed
> with interest on both sides of the coin (religious and company
> identity). I am not requesting that the Valknot be removed from OCAL
> unless there is viable proof that it cannot be used in public domain.
> Thanks for your consideration in this.
> Shawn (Darth_Gimp)
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:54 PM, chovynz<chovynz at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> While I sympathise with what you have written, and are feeling about this
>> clipart, when swastikas are put up, we don't remove those. When upside down
>> crosses are put up we don't remove those. If we make an exception for
>> Odinism/Ásatrú when it offends someone, then we also need to make exceptions
>> when our clipart offends the Christians/Muslims/Hindu faiths/German history
>> as well. This is a black hole that we will never escape from if we start
>> down that road. That's something that has been clear from the beginning, we
>> don't remove clipart based on offensiveness, and so I disagree with the
>> request for removal.
>> I don't really know how to address this issue (since compassion to other
>> people is one of the foundations of good community), yet I also think there
>> is nothing to be done, based on the policies of OCAL and what they have been
>> for a long time.
>> One thing I can suggest is having a function in the user profile settings, a
>> function that excludes displaying user-input tags. So if the clipart is
>> tagged correctly it might be possible to custom-censor your own Library
>> experience. Programmers like Bassel would be able to tell you if this idea
>> is actually possible, but it's one that if it works might address the whole
>> larger issue of offensive cliparts. See here for example.
>> I hope this helps understanding in some small way.
>> Chovynz
>> On 15/07/2010 2:49 a.m., Shawn Evans wrote:
>> Greets!
>> I know that I don't say much here on the list but the logo submission
>> found at  http://www.openclipart.org/index.php?pretty=detail/71893
>> should be removed.As per my comment on the submission:
>> "I think this one should be removed. As a practitioner of Ásatrú, I
>> feel that the Valknot should not be used on a logo of this type. It is
>> a symbol of the god Odin and of the Ásatrú faith and religion in
>> general."
>> I am not sure why the Valknot was chosen for this logo, but the Knot
>> of the Slain has deep meaning to those who are Ásatrú or
>> Odian/Odinist.
>> Thanks.
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