No subject

Fri Oct 19 20:57:29 PDT 2007

Its really a matter of developing an intuitive method of interaction with t=
he environment.  Its very feasible and something that is easily realised.  =
The methods are tried and tested in games systems, 3D editors and even 3D f=
ile managers.  Thus, there are no new technical aspects, its merely the pac=
kaging of those features into a desktop interface.  The business applicatio=
ns can be helpful if used properly, however, the biggest usage will be the =
domestic home user.  The concept of a public desktop space (or virtual room=
), that can be shared across the Internet, will add to social networking mo=
del.  It will also lead to new paradigms in terms of web interaction, navig=
ation and information exchange.  One other major benefit will be the promot=
ion of both X and the Linux platform in general.  To use these new features=
, end user's Operating Systems will need to be compatible with X.  Whilst I=
'm sure limited interfaces could be designed for Windows desktops, it will =
function a lot better as a native Linux user.  There is a chance here to le=
ave the competing Operating Systems for dust and to force their hand in ter=
ms of inter-operability.Carpe diem.

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400From: vperetokin at gmail.comTo: markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.comSubject: Re: [compiz] Feature RequestCC: srhlefty at gmail=
.com ; compiz at lists.freedesktop.org
I had a similar idea, but I think they said it wasn't too feasible much on =
the forums. Why do you capitalize "window" though?I really like your busine=
ss applications for this - they really do sound very good. This'll be excel=
lent.=20
On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com> wrote:=20

Good questions.  I have a few suggestions that may help, I'm sure the Compi=
z developers will be able to structure the controls much better.  So, take =
this as a basis from which to begin. There would be two basic modes, the fi=
rst mode would be free space, that is, your mouse guides you through the de=
sktop space.  Upon selecting a window, you would enter the second mode, the=
 mouse controls would now act upon the selected Window.  A simple left-clic=
k in free space would return the user to the first mode.  I would expect th=
e user to be able walk around the environment similar to any FPS.  Movement=
 can either be provided by a mouse click providing acceleration, or via key=
board controls again similar to any FPS.  As windows are objects, perhaps t=
hey should have a small control on the border of the windows that can be ma=
nipulated by the mouse.  This control would allow the user to alter each of=
 dimensions independently.  A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work well.=
  This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and scaling of the o=
bject.  A quick switch utility is something that is definitely required.  W=
hilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop must provide a productive env=
ironment.  I like the wall utility too, I find it very handy.  I would expe=
ct this to look at the space from above and provide the user with a sense o=
f where each window is located as well as a bitmap preview.  There should a=
lso be support for the direct loading and rendering of meshes.  This is bot=
h for decoration and as a tool for work environments. Collaborative design =
work, even across multiple vendors, would become very easy.  Architects wou=
ld be able to work on designs with real-time client input, car designers wo=
uld be able to work as team, etc.  I'm not suggesting a full editing enviro=
nment, just a basic viewer that supports major formats.  =20

Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700From: srhlefty at gmail.comTo: markmccarr=
on_itt at hotmail.com; compiz at lists.freedesktop.orgSubject: Re: [compiz] Featu=
re Request=20
This is an interesting idea. How would the user control how the windows mo=
ve in the depth dimension? Would the user actually "walk" around such a sp=
ace? With such a large space, how would one get to a particular window qui=
ckly, i.e. is there still a switcher?A 2D slice of such a space reminds me =
a lot of the current "Wall" plugin that compiz has, and is one of my favori=
tes.
On 10/18/07, Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com> wrote:=20

Hi Guys, I have been thinking of a new style of interface that could be add=
ed to Compiz.  Essentially, rather than having a desktop, the user would be=
 presented with a space in which to work.  This space would be several mete=
rs wide in real terms and the user could navigate the space in a similar fa=
shion to a 3D game.  Windows could be grabbed and thrown throughout the spa=
ce, providing a very large workspace.  This would also allow the user to ph=
ysically arrange Windows in the space according to particular tasks or func=
tions.  A simple double-click of a Window would cause it to snap into full =
2D view were the application can be worked upon.  The concept of multiple d=
esktops, could be implemented as multiple spaces.  Given the network transp=
arency of X, it would also allow for the concept of a public space.  A publ=
ic space would be a desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet.=
  This has both business and personal applications.  In terms of business, =
it can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc.  In terms of pers=
onal use, it would open a new area to social networking, desktop surfing.  =
End users could store images, videos and a range of interactive items that =
members of the public can view or download.  I realise that this can prove =
to be a bandwidth hog, but like everything in computer world, this will onl=
y improve with time and become less of an issue.=20

The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail______=
_________________________________________ compiz mailing listcompiz at lists.f=
reedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz

Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with =
BackOfMyHand.com_______________________________________________ compiz mail=
ing listcompiz at lists.freedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/compiz

The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail
_________________________________________________________________
Feel like a local wherever you go.
http://www.backofmyhand.com=

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>I was thinking of a black void into which objects=
 could be placed.&nbsp; For example, you would be able to render an entire =
level of an FPS within the void and include basic collision detection.&nbsp=
; I know that a void will add to the overhead as both the inside and outsid=
e must be rendered.&nbsp; Also, most games use a form of BSP tree that only=
 renders what is visible as a method of optimisation. 
&nbsp; 
I have a good sense of what I want to achieve in terms of visual and intera=
ction.&nbsp; For example, let's say you are using MySpace (or Facebook, New=
svine, etc.) and there is a link that will direct you to someone's public d=
esktop.&nbsp; After clicking the link, the user will be directed away from =
the current window to a seamless transition to the the&nbsp;other users des=
ktop.&nbsp; This depends on two factors, firstly a dynamic DNS entry being =
available for the system in question and it being powered on at the time.&n=
bsp; Each desktop could contain shortcuts that will lead to other desktops,=
 so that people can surf from desktop to desktop. 
&nbsp; 
I would like to develop a prototype, but unfortunately I work and it leaves=
 very little time for anything else.&nbsp; That's why I thought I would try=
 to describe the interface here.&nbsp; Besides, its something that will nee=
d to integrated into the overall architecture of Compiz and that's best lef=
t to the developers. 
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR id=3DEC_stopSpelling>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:08:28 -0700 From: srhlefty at gmail.com To: ma=
rkmccarron_itt at hotmail.com Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request CC: =
compiz at lists.freedesktop.org I agree that it wouldn't be technically=
 challenging to implement, at least the basic features.&nbsp; The tricky pa=
rt is definitely figuring out the best way to give the user control over th=
e space.&nbsp; Does the space look like an FPS level, with rooms and archit=
ecture, or just a black void with windows floating around? The more=
 specific of a vision you have, the easier it is to write code for.&nbsp; F=
iguring out what to do is often h=
arder than how to do it. =
If you can code in OpenGL, a good place to start is to just write a standal=
one application with dummy blocks to represent the windows, and FPS movemen=
t controls.&nbsp; I've actually written something like that in the past for=
 a different project.&nbsp; That would be a good sandbox to play with contr=
ol schemes.&nbsp; Windows are inherently 2D, so to keep them from disappear=
ing if the user is looking the wrong way I suggest it might be useful to ma=
p them to cubes. 
<DIV>On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com">ma=
rkmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_gmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>From a technical perspective, its no more complex than=
 Compiz already is.&nbsp; Its really a matter of developing an intuitive me=
thod of interaction with the environment.&nbsp; Its very feasible and somet=
hing that is easily realised.&nbsp; The methods are tried and tested in gam=
es systems, 3D editors&nbsp;and even 3D file managers.&nbsp; Thus, there&nb=
sp;are no&nbsp;new technical aspects, its merely the packaging of those fea=
tures into a desktop interface. &nbsp; The business applications can=
 be helpful if used properly, however, the biggest usage will be the domest=
ic home user.&nbsp; The concept of a public desktop space (or virtual room)=
, that can be shared across the Internet, will add to social networking mod=
el.&nbsp; It will also lead to new paradigms&nbsp;in terms of&nbsp;web inte=
raction, navigation and information exchange. &nbsp; One other major=
 benefit will be the promotion of both X and the Linux platform in general.=
&nbsp; To use these new features, end user's Operating Systems will need to=
 be compatible with X.&nbsp; Whilst I'm sure limited interfaces could be de=
signed for Windows desktops, it will function a lot better as a native Linu=
x user. &nbsp; There is a chance here to leave the competing Operati=
ng Systems for dust and to force their hand in terms of inter-operability.<=
BR> Carpe diem. 
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400 From: <A href=3D"mailto:vpe=
retokin at gmail.com">vperetokin at gmail.com</A> To: <A href=
=3D"mailto:markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A><B=
R>Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request CC=
: <A href=3D"mailto:srhlefty at gmail.com">srhlefty at gmail.com </A>; <A href=3D=
"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.freedesktop.org</A>
<DIV> I had a simila=
r idea, but I think they said it wasn't too feasible much on the forums. <B=
R> Why do you capitalize "window" though? I really like your busi=
ness applications for this - they really do sound very good. This'll be exc=
ellent. 
<DIV>On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>Good questions.&nbsp; I have a few suggestions that may help, I'm sure=
 the Compiz developers will be able to structure the controls much better.&=
nbsp; So, take this as a basis from which to begin. &nbsp; There woul=
d be two basic modes, the first mode would be free space, that is, your mou=
se guides you through the desktop space.&nbsp; Upon selecting a window, you=
 would enter the second mode, the mouse controls would now act upon the sel=
ected Window.&nbsp; A simple left-click in free space would return the user=
 to the first mode. &nbsp; I would expect the user to be able walk a=
round the environment similar to any FPS.&nbsp; Movement can either be prov=
ided by a mouse click providing acceleration, or via keyboard controls agai=
n similar to any FPS. &nbsp; As windows are objects, perhaps they sh=
ould have a small control on the border of the windows that can be manipula=
ted by the mouse.&nbsp; This control would allow the user to alter each of =
dimensions independently.&nbsp; A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work w=
ell.&nbsp; This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and scaling=
 of the object. &nbsp; A quick switch utility is something that is d=
efinitely required.&nbsp; Whilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop mu=
st provide a productive environment.&nbsp; I like the wall utility too, I f=
ind it very handy.&nbsp; I would expect this to look at the space from abov=
e and provide the user with a sense of where each window is located as well=
 as a bitmap preview. &nbsp; There should also be support for the di=
rect loading and rendering of meshes.&nbsp; This is both for decoration and=
 as a tool for work environments.&nbsp;Collaborative design work, even acro=
ss multiple vendors, would become very easy.&nbsp; Architects would be able=
 to work on designs with real-time client input, car designers would be abl=
e to work as team, etc.&nbsp; I'm not suggesting a full editing environment=
, just a basic viewer that supports major formats. &nbsp; <B=
R> &nbsp; 
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700 From: <A href=3D"mailto:srhlefty at g=
mail.com">srhlefty at gmail.com</A> To: <A href=3D"mailto:markmccarron_itt@=
hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lis=
ts.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.freedesktop.org</A> Subject: Re: [compi=
z] Feature Request=20
<DIV> This is an interesting idea.&nbsp; How would the user co=
ntrol how the windows move in the depth dimension?&nbsp; Would the user act=
ually "walk" around such a space?&nbsp; With such a large space, how would =
one get to a particular window quickly, i.e. is there still a switcher? =
 A 2D slice of such a space reminds me a lot of the current "Wall" plugi=
n that compiz has, and is one of my favorites. 
<DIV>On 10/18/07, Mark McCarron &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>Hi Guys, &nbsp; I have been thinking of a new style of interface=
 that could be added to Compiz.&nbsp; Essentially, rather than having a des=
ktop, the user would be presented with a space in which to work.&nbsp; This=
 space would be several meters wide in real terms and the user could naviga=
te the space in a similar fashion to a 3D game. &nbsp; Windows could=
 be grabbed and thrown throughout the space, providing a very large workspa=
ce.&nbsp; This would also allow the user to physically arrange Windows in t=
he space according to particular tasks or functions.&nbsp; A simple double-=
click of a Window would cause it to snap into full 2D view were the applica=
tion can be worked upon. &nbsp; The concept of multiple desktops, co=
uld be implemented as multiple spaces.&nbsp; Given the network transparency=
 of X, it would also allow for the concept of a public space.&nbsp; A publi=
c space would be a desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet.&=
nbsp; This has both business and personal applications.&nbsp; In terms of b=
usiness, it can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc.&nbsp; In=
 terms of personal use, it would open a new area to social networking, desk=
top surfing.&nbsp; End users could store images, videos and a range of inte=
ractive items that members of the public can view or download. &nbsp;<B=
R>I realise that this can prove to be a bandwidth hog, but like everything =
in&nbsp;computer world, this will only improve with time and become less of=
 an issue.&nbsp; 
<HR>
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - <A href=3D"http://www.newh=
otmail.co.uk/" target=3D_blank>Windows Live Hotmail</A></DIV><=
/SPAN> _______________________________________________ compiz mailin=
g list <A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.free=
desktop.org</A> <A href=3D"http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo=
/compiz" target=3D_blank>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/comp=
iz</A> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> 
<HR>
Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with =
<A href=3D"http://www.backofmyhand.com/" target=3D_blank>BackOfMyHand.com</=
A></DIV> _______________________________________________ compiz mail=
ing list <A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.fr=
eedesktop.org</A> <A href=3D"http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listin=
fo/compiz" target=3D_blank>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/co=
mpiz</A> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> 
<HR>
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - <A href=3D"http://www.newh=
otmail.co.uk/" target=3D_blank>Windows Live Hotmail</A></DIV></DIV><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE> <hr />Do you know a place like the=
 back of your hand? Share local knowledge with <a href=3D'http://www.backo=
fmyhand.com' target=3D'_new'>BackOfMyHand.com</a></body>
</html>=

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