[CREATE] Create projects (was: LGM 2010 Website)

[Christoph Schäfer]

Hi Alex,

Am Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 2009 09:43:24 schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Christoph Schäfer wrote:
> >> Just how many more Ubuntu Studio, 64 Studio and AGNULAs do we *really*
> >> need? :)
> >
> > What we need is a distro created by people who know what they are doing,
> > not attempts by people who don't!
>
> 64 Studio, for instance, is created by people who are actually damn
> good at creative work. Surely I don't have to remind you that it's
> always better to check facts and *then* talk?

64 runs as a multimedia and digital content creation platform, which is fine 
with me. I also have no doubt that the guys behind it are comptent, BUT:

- Does 64 Studio ship with useful colour profiles?
- Does it provide a selection of carefully selected and tested fonts that 
won't screw up a print run?
- Does ist provide the advanced PDF and PostScript tools?

I guess you know that I'm mostly interested in printing, and in this regard, 
64 Studio isn't any better than the average Debian, Fedora or whatever 
standard distro.

>
> >> Can you save a multilayered ORA
> >> with clipping paths fron GIMP and manage layers/paths in Scribus (like
> >> you can with TIFF and PSD)?
> >
> > Since when is ORA even close to being a finished spec?
>
> Heh, SVG *is* a finished spec. Does it help supporting it well? Sorry,
> but your argument doesn't work. Do come up with something else, please

Well, before denigrating others, what about about reading? I was talking about 
ORA and you answer that SVG is a finished spec. Duh.

>
> :)
>
> My point is that free/libre apps have very poor interaction at present
> time, be it graphics or audio. For various reasons. Lately this has
> been changing with e.g. MyPaint adopting ORA as native format and its
> team creating an I/O filter for GIMP, or LASH slowly becoming a good
> enough solution for audio sessions management, but clearly this is not
> enough.
>
> It's just like with GIMP -- pro users can excuse some non-optimal UI
> solutions if they have access to a number of well-know hi-fi/end
> features to get the job done. Getting job done in the real world among
> other things means you can always open a file you were sent by a
> client. But right now people have problems even creating 100% FLOSS
> based workflows, and no -- it has nothing to do with particular
> distributions or desktop environments or toolkits, no matter how *you*
> like bashing Gtk+, GNOME and Ubuntu.
>
> A good part of the reason is in lack of contributors. But the other
> half is that working on file formats support is a bloody boring work
> that very few people want to do.
>
> >> Pick any pro user who does complete packages for companies (from
> >> web-site to TV promos) and he'll tell you how easily you can pass data
> >> between Ai, Ps, Fl and Ae. Yet another distro won't get us there and
> >> there are people already who do "creative" distributions already,
> >> based on Debian, Fedora, Slackware and whatnot.
> >
> > See above. And btw.: How easy is it to use a program that's not part of a
> > certain vendor's portfolio, but actually more suited to the task in a
> > workflow?
>
> Try opening a CDR from X4 in AI CS4 sometime.

Your point being?

>
> > I agree with you in that "[y]et another distro won't get us there," but
> > else you seem to be advocating an authoritarian approach. It won't
> > happen, no matter how often you claim superior knowledge -- sorry for
> > this, but your arrogant tone almost asked for a retaliation ;P
>
> This knowldege is not superior, it's just not evenly distributed among
> humans :) Sorry to see you in the thinner later :)

Oh, the all-knowing Prokoudine, smarter than the rest of the world. While you 
certainly are entitled to abrasive and impolite behaviour, I don't see how 
this is constructive in any way.
 
>
> > Moreover, I'd be glad if you were more careful with statements like "Pick
> > any pro user." Like it or not, there are millions of professionals out
> > there who use a mix of different applications and vendors to get their
> > work done.
>
> Pick any pro CS user. Do you like it better now? :)

No, as it doesn't make sense. A lot of people use only parts of CS in 
combination with other programs. And a lot of people don't use it at all. 
That's the reality.

>
> >> Please stop using 199x distros :) Modern Qt4 apps can use Gtk+ file
> >> dialogs just fine when launched in GNOME
> >
> > Since you are aware of of my (strictly personal) distaste for Gnome, I
> > won't comment any further, except that we seemed to agree at some point
> > that the Gnome/GTK+ file dialogs are a PITA ;P
>
> Wrong

Maybe, but that doesn't solve the problem.

>
> EOT for me. You contradict for the sake of contradiction. This is
> leading nowhere.

Err, just because I don't share all of your views, I contradict for the sake 
of contradiction. Interesting.

I really wonder why you actually take part in this discussion, as you 
absolutely love to play the knowitall. Reminder: You are not the CEO of 
Create Inc. 

Hint: This is discussion is not about black and white, right or wrong, but 
about better or worse (which will always be in the eye of the beholder).

Cheers

Christoph