[CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

Mon Aug 16 03:51:57 PDT 2010

More below .... sorry again to all readers of this long email....

2010/8/16 Louis Desjardins <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>

> 2010/8/16 Camille Bissuel <cbissuel at yagraph.org>
>
>> to Cyrille Berger :
>>
>>
>> *While lgw does not cover the LGA purpose, it matches the lga website. To
>> be
>> honest, from what I have understood, lga = lgw + create.*
>> ---> In my view, lga > lgw + create, to another public (users) and other
>> aims (demonstrate + explain +teach ...). LGW is excellent for news and
>> Create is excellent for collaboration between projects, but there are others
>> topics to be covered.
>> Can I mess up the create wiki and change it's aim without starting a flame
>> war ? If I can, I do agree with you that there is no need for another
>> website.
>
>
> Hi Camile !
>
> Maybe I can suggest you don’t put words like "mess up" in this context ?
> This is surely paving the way to some sort of mess... :) which is obviously
> what you don’t want to achieve !
>
>>
>>
>>
>> *If people thinks create does not works very well, I fail to see how
>> having an "association" is
>> going to magically solve any problem. Especially, considering that what
>> create
>> lack is mostly of animation.
>> Also, creating an association with no revenue seems to be a lot of
>> bureaucratic work. In many countries, the main point of registering an
>> association is to get access to a bank account.*
>> ---> to have a bank account in the future, you have to start by creating
>> an association, not the opposite way. It will allow us to start the project
>> and start to share some means. Furthermore, according to a.l.e, creating an
>> association in Switzerland is really simple and there is no bureaucratic
>> work.
>
>
> Never underestimate the bureaucratic work... :)
>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Finally, I want to encourage any effort in promoting libre creative
>> software,
>> but I add my voices in the "there is already too many separated efforts,
>> lets
>> join force instead of creating new".*
>>  ---> Totally agree with that. What I'm doing wrong to let you think that
>> LGA is not about joining forces ?
>>
>> For the Libre graphics magazine, I do agree too, but it will have a far
>> much lesser diffusion than a website. I don't understand why peoples agree
>> on the magazine, and not on the website, despite they share parts on the
>> same objectives (promoting and demonstrating libre graphics tools).
>> Am I stupid ?
>>
>
> In the eyes of many people on this list we are already into an
> "association". We belong to this community, we work together, we communicate
> a lot, we have means to do this. This is what most people would call an
> association !
>
> You have more ideas, which is great ! You think we should embrace more
> topics that are not covered yet, okay !
>
> But again, this can all be done going in the same flow we have already. No
> need to reinvent the wheel. Just push in the same direction. Add some more
> bits here and there. If we need a more structured association, we have
> already a discussion on the wiki about this and a few incredibly rich
> threads on the Creates Mailing List. Already, there is a big work only
> gathering together those ideas and make them come alive...
>
> I think that so far it’s only a matter of communication. I have been
> participating in the BoF at LGM with you. I am all for a more structured
> association. We have announced together at LGM that we’d be doing it
> quickly. The only thing we should do now is do it.
>
> Some more notes.
>
> In 2007 I have put together a non-profit to help organise LGM as I rapidly
> discovered that in order to get some local sponsorship (especially from the
> government). Since then, this non-profit has been left there, unused. I
> haven’t looked after this association for years. I didn’t use it in 2009
> because it was too much for me to handle the accounting so I preferred to
> leave that to the GNOME Foundation. Today, the assocation named "Quebec
> Association for the Development and Promotion of Free Software" is reviving
> because we have a big project going on with the Francophonie and we will be
> handling funds. I have even opened an account in euros so we don’t need to
> convert the funds and we thus avoid a lot of stress with the handling of
> international funding, something that is even better than what the GNOME
> Foundation can offer us, in some way. It would be as easy — and even easier
> — to open an account in US dollars. But all this have a cost in both money
> and time. An account at the bank cost a little bit of money. And we have to
> provide some papers each year to the government, and we need a proper
> accounting...
>
> So there is an association which I run and which has no website !
> Nonetheless it works and with this new project with OIF it will be running
> for months from now. I even have plans to use it next year for LGM —
> although I am still not sure of that but I am thinking of that...
>
> All this to say that if you think we need a better / nicer
>

...  All this to say, was I saying ! :) if you think we need a better /
nicer website, then do it. But maybe we need more content than container at
this point.

Only on the topic of certification, we’d need a plan of what is a
certification, what it does and how we would prepare to offer it. What kind
of exam people would need to pass... For me, this certification is *not* at
all essential although Adobe does provide one and has tried over the years
to convince the graphic world that it would be very important to have
that... but in fact, at least in Montreal, I know nobody who is an "Adobe
Certified Graphic Designer" (for instance). Designers don’t care ! But I
would not say to you "don’t do it". If there is a need, it will live. If
not, it will simply vanish. It’s ok. It’s life.

On the gathering of money, we have to have goals. LGM is THE big goal for
which we ask for money. Some projects, like a magazine or a book, can grow
under the wing of LGM. I suggest we get local sponshorship for this. After
all, if we are to print, we need to distribute the printed material and LGM
is a good place for this.

Somewhere downstream as the needs grow maybe LGM will become proportionnally
a bit less important with regards to the new needs and projects. And we will
need lots more money. But this will take time and should be done using all
the strengths we have.

So, no flame war on the horizon... I think we simply don’t need to use those
words.

As to gather money, we already have the GNOME Foundation and we have also —
for very specific projects — an official association in Montreal. I prefer
we stick with the GNOME Foundation for now but things might change.

Ok for now.

Let’s not reinvent the wheel but use it instead. From the rolling stones we
have made wheels, and from wheels we have made gears and pulleys. I see many
of the ideas here as gears or pulleys. From gears, we have created motors
and watches and so many things ! With pulleys you can lift heavy weights
with so little energy...

One last thought is about the name. I know it’s important to have a name but
I have to say I don’t really care much about the url itself. I only need to
have the links stored in the right place. I don’t care if LGM has a too long
or too short name, I cannot even tell you the url of the LGM page on the
create wiki. But I know that I can get there in seconds... So we might as
well concentrate on the content. :)

My 2-cents.

Cheers to all !

Louis

>
>> I feel that the best way to convince is to start working on it.
>> So, let's go.
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> --yagraph
>>
>>
>> 2010/8/16 a.l.e <ale.comp_06 at xox.ch>
>>
>> hi ginger,
>>>
>>> > > So we could create a magazine (available as PDF, and printed to
>>> > > people who want a paper edition, actually someone already started
>>> > > such a project, I think
>>> > > ?), or a booklet that could be send as "commercial" to companies, a
>>> > > book (either tutorial, or a "story" book with illustration created
>>> > > with our software).
>>> > > All done with free software. Then you can show the results to
>>> > > professional, and impress them. When I was a student, I
>>> > > participated in editing a student weekly newspaper, we managed to
>>> > > print in four colors using a two cylinders rotary printer, the
>>> > > seller was so surprised by the result that you could get
>>> > > with the machine, that he sent a few samples of our journal to the
>>> > > direction
>>> > > in Japan. This little story shows that if you do interesting
>>> > > things, you will
>>> > > get attention.
>>> > > There is already an impressive pool of artists using our software,
>>> > > lets pull
>>> > > them together to create material that display the power of our
>>> > > tools.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > A great big +1 on the magazine. Just before LGM, Ricardo, Ana, Femke,
>>> > a.l.e. and I pulled together Libre Graphics Magazine #0. Since then,
>>> > I've been thinking seriously (as I plan workshops and talks for
>>> > artists and design students) about the value of doing such a magazine
>>> > more frequently. I think it would be a great vehicle around which to
>>> > build some user community, as well as a nice, professional public
>>> > show of what F/LOSS graphics software can do.
>>> >
>>> > So I'm game to pick up where we left off on the magazine, and willing
>>> > to add some editorial weight to the effort. If anyone else is
>>> > interested in working on it too, all the better.
>>>
>>> i'd like to produce a second number while being at http://froscomp.org .
>>> (mid september)
>>>
>>> the idea is to have the content mostly produced in advanced and having
>>> a small crew doing the magazine live at our booth.
>>>
>>> i'm not sure i will have founds to print it, so it may just be a PDF to
>>> put on the web.
>>>
>>> what do you think about it?
>>>
>>> could you image to have an active role even if not personally present?
>>> (no, i certainly won't have the budget to fly you to zurich! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> ciao
>>> a.l.e
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CREATE mailing list
>>> CREATE at lists.freedesktop.org
>>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CREATE mailing list
>> CREATE at lists.freedesktop.org
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Louis Desjardins
> mardigrafe.com
> libregraphicsmeeting.org
> +1 514 994 9351 (Cell)
> +1 514 934 1353 ext. 121 (Montréal)
> HAE / EDT GMT -5
>

-- 
Louis Desjardins
mardigrafe.com
libregraphicsmeeting.org
+1 514 994 9351 (Cell)
+1 514 934 1353 ext. 121 (Montréal)
HAE / EDT GMT -5
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