[Fontconfig] Re: Why do asian fonts contain greek glyphs?

[Simos Xenitellis]

Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> Mike FABIAN wrote:
>> Simos Xenitellis <simos74 at gmx.net> さんは書きました:
>>
>>  
>>> Hi All,
>>> There is a nasty situation in the current configuration on fontconfig
>>> that makes it really bad when displaying Greek.
>>> For example, you get this issue when installing the latest Ubuntu
>>> Breezy (Dev version) and it looks like
>>> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=3690
>>>
>>> Why does Greek show like that? The characters are always slanted, big
>>> space between them, and in general they are terrible.
>>> New distributions have FreeFonts and MgOpen that support Greek.
>>>
>>> /etc/fonts/fonts.conf says:
>>>
>>> <alias>
>>>                 <family>Bitstream Vera Sans</family>
>>>                 <family>Helvetica</family>
>>>                 <family>Arial</family>
>>>                 <family>Verdana</family>
>>>                 <family>Albany AMT</family>
>>>                 <family>Nimbus Sans L</family>
>>>                 <family>Luxi Sans</family>
>>>                 <family>Kochi Gothic</family>
>>>                 <family>AR PL KaitiM GB</family>
>>>                 <family>AR PL KaitiM Big5</family>
>>>                 <family>ＭＳ ゴシック</family>
>>>                 <family>Baekmuk Dotum</family>
>>>                 <family>SimSun</family>
>>>                 <family>FreeSans</family>
>>>                 <default><family>sans-serif</family></default>
>>> </alias>
>>>
>>> which means that fonts are searched in this order to find Greek
>>> glyphs. It would be nice and perfect, unfortunately
>>>
>>> 1. Kochi Gothic
>>> 2. AR PL KaitiM GB
>>> 3. Baekmuk Dotum
>>>
>>> have Greek glyphs and they get matched, before FreeSans gets the
>>> chance. These Asian fonts appear to be double-spaced(?) and display
>>> Greek in a way that native Greek speakers are not used to; it looks
>>> terrible.
>>>
>>> Therefore,
>>> a. How can we instruct fontconfig (fonts.conf) to ignore any Greek
>>> glyphs found in those Asian fonts?
>>>     
>>
>> Why don't you just move the fonts good for Greek up to higher
>> priority in the prefer list. I.e. change
>>     <alias>
>>         <family>serif</family>
>>         <prefer>
>>             <family>Bitstream Vera Serif</family>
>>             <family>Times New Roman</family>
>>             <family>Thorndale AMT</family>
>>             <family>Luxi Serif</family>
>>             <family>Nimbus Roman No9 L</family>
>>             <family>Times</family>
>>             <family>Frank Ruehl</family>
>>             <family>Kochi Mincho</family>
>>             <family>AR PL SungtiL GB</family>
>>             <family>SimSun</family>
>>             <family>AR PL Mingti2L Big5</family>
>>             <family>ＭＳ 明朝</family>
>>             <family>Baekmuk Batang</family>
>>             <family>FreeSerif</family>
>>         </prefer>
>>     </alias>
>>
>> to
>>     <alias>
>>         <family>serif</family>
>>         <prefer>
>>             <family>Bitstream Vera Serif</family>
>>             <family>Times New Roman</family>
>>             <family>Thorndale AMT</family>
>>             <family>Luxi Serif</family>
>>             <family>Nimbus Roman No9 L</family>
>>             <family>Times</family>
>>             <family>Frank Ruehl</family>
>>             <family>FreeSerif</family>
>>             <family>Kochi Mincho</family>
>>             <family>AR PL SungtiL GB</family>
>>             <family>SimSun</family>
>>             <family>AR PL Mingti2L Big5</family>
>>             <family>ＭＳ 明朝</family>
>>             <family>Baekmuk Batang</family>
>>         </prefer>
>>     </alias>
>>
>> and if the MgOpen fonts are nicer than the fonts from the
>> "freefont"-project, add them above "FreeSerif" for example.
>>
>>  
>>> b. Is ignoring the Greek glyphs in those Asian fonts the correct path
>>> in solving the problem?
>>>     
>>
>> I don't think this is a good solution.
>>
>> Imagine that the only fonts installed which have Greek glyphs are
>> those Asian fonts. In that case it is surely better to display Greek
>> which is ugly but readable than to display only boxes.
>>
>> To display Greek as beautiful as possible, the fonts in the prefer
>> lists just need to be sorted so that the most beautiful fonts are on
>> top.
>>   
> Thanks all for the input.
> I'll produce a patch that places the FreeFonts and MgOpen fonts higher 
> up in the list for Sans/Serif/Mono fonts in fonts.conf.
>
> FreeFonts were added by Vasilis Vasaitis two years ago
> http://cvs.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/fontconfig/fonts.conf.in?r1=1.24&r2=1.25 
>
> at the bottom of the list. This has not changed since then, although 
> some distributions would edit the list for their purposes.
Hi All,
I created a bug report and patch,
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4639

The patch
1. adds MgOpen (Canonica for serif, Moderna for sans serif)
2. places FreeFonts higher than the asian fonts that contain Greek glyphs
3. between MgOpen and FreeFonts, MgOpen has higher preference and is 
used if available.

Please apply as soon as possible as we try to make the ubuntu deadline,
http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15108

Cheers,
Simos Xenitellis