[LGM] finances

Fri Nov 24 07:00:07 UTC 2017

Hi all,

the Saarbruecken network that submitted a proposal for 2019 includes a
non-profit company in charge of the art academy's think tank, transfer and
training activities. It is financed through overhead charges (which cover
the cost of handling invoices etc) , but in principle this is an option if
K8 were already to act as cooperating partner in 2018. Just an idea if
GNOME falls through.

best,

Soenke

Am 24.11.2017 5:45 vorm. schrieb "Dave Crossland" <dave at lab6.com>:

> Also, if the revenue to the org and all the payments out to LGMers happen
> within the  orgs accounting year, it may be tax neutral (this is not
> accounting advice ;)
>
> On Nov 23, 2017 8:25 PM, "Dave Crossland" <dave at lab6.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> It does not need to be a 501c3 or non profit, and does not need to be in
>> the USA. However the entity must have a bank account already set up today,
>> that can accept USD payments (which most accounts in eu countries can
>> typically do)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2017 6:49 PM, "Louis Desjardins" <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-11-23 20:28 GMT-05:00 Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi, Louis.
>>>>
>>>> The hang-up on SPI is not internal to LGM at this point. I was indeed
>>>> unable to get the finance committee together, but the organization as a
>>>> whole did approve sending the letter, and I will send it next week. The
>>>> next series of hurdles will involve identifying what steps we need to take
>>>> in order to satisfy SPI requirements. We will have a better idea of that
>>>> once we receive a response to the letter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok! Great! Thanks Frank!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Dave.
>>>>
>>>> Does the beneficiary organization need to be a 501(c)3? If not, we
>>>> could have an organization set up next week and a bank account by
>>>> mid-December. If it must be a 501(c)3, I might be able to persuade a local
>>>> 501(c)3 to step in this one time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Frank (again)!
>>>
>>> The canadian org was not under 501(c)3 and Google did send the money to
>>> us, with a PO and an Invoice. As a non-profit it was not subject to income
>>> tax. If you ask a regular company to invoice Google, this will be a revenue
>>> to that company, subject to income tax. If you can persuade a 501(c)3 org
>>> to handle such an amount of money for a relatively short period of time, it
>>> would be preferable, I think. No income tax would be involved and the money
>>> could transit back to SPI without fiscal impact on both organisations, when
>>> all is settled.
>>>
>>> If this is feasible, Dave will have a solid ground for the money to land
>>> and thus will be able to ask the subsidy in confidence.
>>>
>>> All in all, I think it’s great if we can take this opportunity to solve
>>> 2 things at once: the organisation and the budget! If we do end up with 15K
>>> as a start, this amount will probably be enough to cover most of the needs
>>> for the 2018 edition.
>>>
>>> Thanks to both of you!
>>>
>>> Louis
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Louis Desjardins <
>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2017-11-23 16:05 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Google is a big company, but Google Fonts is not a big team, and it
>>>>>> would be just me handling this, and I don't have time to administer
>>>>>> individual reimbursements. What I do have time for is a single sponsorship
>>>>>> agreement (using a Google template contract) and cutting a single check to
>>>>>> an LGM entity, be that an umbrella one or a direct one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am I right that if Google Fonts was to offer to sponsor LGM with a
>>>>>> single $15,000 payment in December (ie, get the agreement signed before end
>>>>>> of this month, next week, then invoice within first two weeks of December)
>>>>>> then this wouldn't be possible because LGM has no legal entity that could
>>>>>> sign a sponsorship agreement and invoice the money?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, that's a pity, because it may be easier for me to offer than
>>>>>> now then next year, due to the nature of 'end of year' liquidity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a fan-tas-tic opportunity we ab-so-lu-te-ly cannot let go!
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly urge the LGM organisers to enforce the decision that was
>>>>> made years ago when we thoroughly discussed about the finances as to go for
>>>>> SPI without delay.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we feel we need a vote, then let’s organise one.
>>>>>
>>>>> More infos are posted here:
>>>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/
>>>>>
>>>>> It takes a couple months (there is a 60-day delay once the Board has
>>>>> accepted), so we’re not ahead of time. The Board of SPI has to meet
>>>>> (monthly) and analyse the project before they submit it.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is too long and puts the Google Font subsidy at risk, then the
>>>>> only other viable solution I can think of, is to ask the GNOME Foundation
>>>>> to make the Google transaction for LGM and then transfert that money to SPI
>>>>> once we’re accepted officially. They will be both US 501(c)3 Non-Profit
>>>>> Organizations and so can send money to one another with not fiscal impact
>>>>> (at least, this is what I understand and it would be advisable to check
>>>>> this first with both SPI and GNOME). Whether GNOME would still take a % off
>>>>> the grant remains to be discussed. We should be able to negociate a no-fee
>>>>> transaction for such a particular case.
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone has a better idea, please step in quick. This is an urgent
>>>>> matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Dave!
>>>>>
>>>>> Louis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22 November 2017 at 19:05, Louis Desjardins <
>>>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After reading tonight’s log, here my 2-cents.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I strongly support that we connect with SPI.
>>>>>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/services/
>>>>>>> and let them handle the money and the reimbursements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *The tax-deductible thing is really only noise in the discussion.
>>>>>>> Each country handles its fiscal law regardless of others. There is no
>>>>>>> practical solution to this problem. If we go the SPI way, money donated by
>>>>>>> individuals from within the USA will be tax-deducted, other money won’t.
>>>>>>> However, a regular compagny that would provide a subsidy to LGM from
>>>>>>> anywhere in the world will probably enter it into its expenses and thus
>>>>>>> will reduce by the same its bottom line... and hence will pay less income
>>>>>>> tax. Again, not an issue. (Also, considering the average amount we got from
>>>>>>> individuals (in Pledgie), this was less than $50 so tax-deductible would
>>>>>>> only be a fraction of small amounts. Nothing worth establishing a global
>>>>>>> multinational organisation to save little money. Let’s not get hysterical!)*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest we vote on this to give some weight to the decision. If
>>>>>>> the majority votes for SPI, we’re in; money can go there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What’s left to us is to find sponsors. SPI won’t help us. But they
>>>>>>> can handle the money, in and out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we’d prefer, we could vote on the reimbursements and ask if we
>>>>>>> want to pursue, or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In any way, we need to clarify things quick.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also need to think long-term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2017-11-19 6:36 GMT-05:00 Louis Desjardins <
>>>>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2017-11-18 16:13 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think Google Fonts may be interested in this sponsorship, with a
>>>>>>>>> focus on bringing people together to do focused work on Variable Font
>>>>>>>>> support in all libre graphics applications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Felipe Sanches was working on Inkscape support and got stuck, so
>>>>>>>>> if he can attend and meet Inkscape core devs to make progress towards being
>>>>>>>>> ready to ship, that would be great.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What were the total budgets for lgms in the past?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roughly :
>>>>>>>> - Europe LGMs : 10-15K USD
>>>>>>>> - North America LGMs - 20-30K USD
>>>>>>>> - Outside “Occidental North” is much higher (from rough
>>>>>>>> evaluations).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The numbers greatly vary from the needs of travellers and we have
>>>>>>>> no way of accurately predicting this until late in the process of
>>>>>>>> organising a LGM (ie, after we know who’s coming from which team, who makes
>>>>>>>> a talk, who animates a workshop, who’s in need of travel sponsoring).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you can have money from Google (say, they reserve an envelope of
>>>>>>>> 15K for Sevilla), the best way to handle it would be through them directly
>>>>>>>> (Google money to sponsored participant directly), using their
>>>>>>>> administrative way, forms, money handling, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If this is not feasible but Google accepts to sponsor the event,
>>>>>>>> then we need an organisation to handle this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From experience, the reimbursement process is not easy because of
>>>>>>>> the many variables that are unknown at some point in the reimbursement
>>>>>>>> process, including bad bank infos, missing documents, impossibility to
>>>>>>>> handle a reimbursement based on where in the world the transaction ends
>>>>>>>> (some money get stuck months in intermediary banks). Probably things that a
>>>>>>>> company such as Google would handle best.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To those who have been participating in the past discussions on
>>>>>>>> that subject:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    1. I am permanently out of this process now, given a) the level
>>>>>>>>    of dissatisfaction and b) the level of non-enthusiasm the detailed
>>>>>>>>    proposals I’ve made to solve the issue in a sustainable manner have
>>>>>>>>    received.
>>>>>>>>    2. We definitely had a final decision of moving to a
>>>>>>>>    international non-profit organisation who already handles the money of many
>>>>>>>>    FLOSS projects, for a decent fee. Side note: I am *very surprised* to see
>>>>>>>>    that in the past 3 years, and after the heavy discussions we had about
>>>>>>>>    finances, nothing has moved forward (although the decision was made). Lots
>>>>>>>>    of talks, no action.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It’s never to late for action. Either give up on reimbursements or
>>>>>>>> make it happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To me, if Dave can have Google be on our side again and handle the
>>>>>>>> reimbursements, I support this strongly. I think it’s the most simple way
>>>>>>>> and it will take away from us the most difficult task in the organisation
>>>>>>>> of LGM.
>>>>>>>> As a long time LGM supporter and organiser, I am still ready to
>>>>>>>> help, with other stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have a wonderful day!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2017 10:38 AM, "Gregory Pittman" <gpittman at iglou.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2017 10:01 AM, ale rimoldi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > hi
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > so, if i understand it correctly, the current status is that we
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> > not have any "official" reimbursement of travel costs from the
>>>>>>>>>> global
>>>>>>>>>> > lgm for 2018.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > if anybody is not comfortable with this, please step up before
>>>>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>>>> > lgm meeting and let us discuss it!
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > (for reference: it has also been suggested that we should get
>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>> > help...) the teams to collect their own money).
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think another way to look at this is to try to see it from the
>>>>>>>>>> outside. Why would or should some outside organization donate to
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> meeting? What's in it for them? We know it doesn't have to be some
>>>>>>>>>> monetary return for some corporation, but still, of the various
>>>>>>>>>> meetings
>>>>>>>>>> and organizations that are out there, why donate to LGM?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have to try to begin to answer this question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having said this, I have put out a feeler to Red Hat, and so far
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> response has been rather feeble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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