[LGM] finances
Soenke Zehle
soenke at kein.org
Sun Nov 26 12:33:58 UTC 2017
>the actual administration of the bursary
that is what overhead charges cover. For K8, it's 15 % f research-related
projects (national or EU funds commonly include overhead flats between 20
and 25 % per cent).
The tax rate depends on whether we are talking donation (tax free, but also
no mention of donor allowed) or sponsoring (usually 19%).
Am 25.11.2017 8:13 vorm. schrieb "Dave Crossland" <dave at lab6.com>:
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2017 10:16 AM, "Louis Desjardins" <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2017-11-24 11:51 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Who at GNOME Foundation can provide details of their interest in this and
>> their overhead charges (if any)?
>>
>
> I just wrote to GNOME to explore that path. I am currently waiting for an
> answer. As soon as I get it, I will get back here.
>
>
> Super! Thank you Louis!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2017 12:00 AM, "Soenke Zehle" <soenke at kein.org> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > the Saarbruecken network that submitted a proposal for 2019 includes a
>> non-profit company in charge of the art academy's think tank, transfer and
>> training activities. It is financed through overhead charges (which cover
>> the cost of handling invoices etc) , but in principle this is an option if
>> K8 were already to act as cooperating partner in 2018. Just an idea if
>> GNOME falls through.
>>
>> Thank you Soenke, this seems like a good Plan B to me. If we go that way,
>> I wonder that the sponsorship agreement could potentially cover 2018 and
>> 2019 LGMs to simplify things and have some continuity.
>>
>
> Yes, agree too that it’s a good plan B.
>
> Let’s keep in mind that both the GNOME or the Saarbruecken network would
> only act as SFH (Secure Funds Holder) until everything is settled with SPI
> who will in turn take care of the reimbursement process after LGM.
>
>
> Wouldn't SPI also be merely a SFH and we still need someone to do the
> actual administration of the bursary?
>
>
> LGM Seville is 26-30 April 2018.
>
> Today is Nov. 24. That’s 5 months ahead of LGM. I believe the SPI way can
> be settled within those 5 months.
>
> Do you know what the overhead charges are structured as, exactly? :)
>>
>> I'm guessing there are 2 sets of charges possible
>>
>> - one for receiving the funds, holding them securely, and sending out a
>> series of transfers clearly communicated by the person from LGM taking
>> responsibility for the travel bursaries administration;
>>
>> - one for doing that work, if such a person doesn't volunteer or isn't
>> assigned this responsibility by the LGM organization
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2017 6:42 AM, "ale" <a at 414c45.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dave!
>> We've bank accounts of course but I think the main issue then is the
>> administration of this money
>>
>>
>> I agree!
>>
>> I think we need to schedule a quick vote or two, to (a) formally set out
>> there process of offering and administering a travel bursary and (b)
>> solicit volunteers and/or nominees, and pick one.
>>
>> This administration would invite handling all of the pre-payment work:
>> committing a final list of recipients, amounts, and payment addresses.
>>
>> Having worked with Frank Trampe as a fontforge contract developer I think
>> he would be effective in this and hereby nominate him :)
>>
>>
>> (and the taxes of receving such a payment:
>> we'd need to look for a 'formula' for handling this because these
>> accounts are not related to a non-profit activity).
>>
>>
>> As I said, I believe if the payments in and out are within the accounting
>> year of a taxable organization, the organization won't be liable for
>> taxation. I am not an accountant and this is not accounting advice, but I'm
>> eager to hear from anyone who thinks I'm wrong on this point :)
>>
>>
>> I always thought this is not a task of the local group but of a specific
>> comission of the 'international network'. Am I wrong with this? I fear
>> that it could become too much work if we add to the organisational tasks
>> to keep track of the money and the reimbursements.
>>
>>
>> I agree that this should not fall on the shoulders of the local team
>> unless they are eager to do it.
>>
>> If there is no volunteer that the central committee holds responsible for
>> administering travel bursaries, it seems to me inevitable that the
>> organization will have to use some of the funds to pay for a contractor to
>> be responsible.
>>
>> I have no problem with that, although I recognize that such contracting
>> can be corrosive to volunteer led efforts.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Ale.
>>
>>
>> El 24/11/17 a las 00:49, Dave Crossland escribió:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Would the local venue host be able to accept such a payment, and have
>> > someone to administer the expense claims?
>> >
>> > On Nov 23, 2017 5:47 PM, "Dave Crossland" <dave at lab6.com
>> > <mailto:dave at lab6.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Thanks Louis :)
>> >
>> > To be clear I'm not making that offer right now, but saying I'm
>> > willing to work within Google to advocate for it. However before I
>> > do that, I want to be sure that there is a recipient organization
>> > ready to go if I can succeed :)
>> >
>> > On Nov 23, 2017 2:30 PM, "Louis Desjardins"
>> > <louis.desjardins at gmail.com <mailto:louis.desjardins at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-11-23 16:05 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com
>> > <mailto:dave at lab6.com>>:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Google is a big company, but Google Fonts is not a big team,
>> > and it would be just me handling this, and I don't have time
>> > to administer individual reimbursements. What I do have time
>> > for is a single sponsorship agreement (using a Google
>> > template contract) and cutting a single check to an LGM
>> > entity, be that an umbrella one or a direct one.
>> >
>> > Am I right that if Google Fonts was to offer to sponsor LGM
>> > with a single $15,000 payment in December (ie, get the
>> > agreement signed before end of this month, next week, then
>> > invoice within first two weeks of December) then this
>> > wouldn't be possible because LGM has no legal entity that
>> > could sign a sponsorship agreement and invoice the money?
>> >
>> > If so, that's a pity, because it may be easier for me to
>> > offer than now then next year, due to the nature of 'end of
>> > year' liquidity.
>> >
>> >
>> > This is a fan-tas-tic opportunity we ab-so-lu-te-ly cannot let
>> go!
>> >
>> > I strongly urge the LGM organisers to enforce the decision that
>> > was made years ago when we thoroughly discussed about the
>> > finances as to go for SPI without delay.
>> >
>> > If we feel we need a vote, then let’s organise one.
>> >
>> > More infos are posted here:
>> > https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/
>> > <https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/>
>> >
>> > It takes a couple months (there is a 60-day delay once the Board
>> > has accepted), so we’re not ahead of time. The Board of SPI has
>> > to meet (monthly) and analyse the project before they submit it.
>> >
>> > If this is too long and puts the Google Font subsidy at risk,
>> > then the only other viable solution I can think of, is to ask
>> > the GNOME Foundation to make the Google transaction for LGM and
>> > then transfert that money to SPI once we’re accepted officially.
>> > They will be both US 501(c)3 Non-Profit Organizations and so can
>> > send money to one another with not fiscal impact (at least, this
>> > is what I understand and it would be advisable to check this
>> > first with both SPI and GNOME). Whether GNOME would still take a
>> > % off the grant remains to be discussed. We should be able to
>> > negociate a no-fee transaction for such a particular case.
>> >
>> > If someone has a better idea, please step in quick. This is an
>> > urgent matter.
>> >
>> > Thanks Dave!
>> >
>> > Louis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > On 22 November 2017 at 19:05, Louis Desjardins
>> > <louis.desjardins at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:louis.desjardins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > After reading tonight’s log, here my 2-cents.
>> >
>> > I strongly support that we connect with SPI.
>> > https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/services/
>> > <https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/services/>
>> > and let them handle the money and the reimbursements.
>> >
>> > /The tax-deductible thing is really only noise in the
>> > discussion. Each country handles its fiscal law
>> > regardless of others. There is no practical solution to
>> > this problem. If we go the SPI way, money donated by
>> > individuals from within the USA will be tax-deducted,
>> > other money won’t. However, a regular compagny that
>> > would provide a subsidy to LGM from anywhere in the
>> > world will probably enter it into its expenses and thus
>> > will reduce by the same its bottom line... and hence
>> > will pay less income tax. Again, not an issue. (Also,
>> > considering the average amount we got from individuals
>> > (in Pledgie), this was less than $50 so tax-deductible
>> > would only be a fraction of small amounts. Nothing worth
>> > establishing a global multinational organisation to save
>> > little money. Let’s not get hysterical!)/
>> >
>> > I suggest we vote on this to give some weight to the
>> > decision. If the majority votes for SPI, we’re in; money
>> > can go there.
>> >
>> > What’s left to us is to find sponsors. SPI won’t help
>> > us. But they can handle the money, in and out.
>> >
>> > If we’d prefer, we could vote on the reimbursements and
>> > ask if we want to pursue, or not.
>> >
>> > In any way, we need to clarify things quick.
>> >
>> > We also need to think long-term.
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Louis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-11-19 6:36 GMT-05:00 Louis Desjardins
>> > <louis.desjardins at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:louis.desjardins at gmail.com>>:
>> >
>> > 2017-11-18 16:13 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland
>> > <dave at lab6.com <mailto:dave at lab6.com>>:
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I think Google Fonts may be interested in this
>> > sponsorship, with a focus on bringing people
>> > together to do focused work on Variable Font
>> > support in all libre graphics applications.
>> >
>> > Felipe Sanches was working on Inkscape support
>> > and got stuck, so if he can attend and meet
>> > Inkscape core devs to make progress towards
>> > being ready to ship, that would be great.
>> >
>> > What were the total budgets for lgms in the
>> past?
>> >
>> >
>> > Roughly :
>> > - Europe LGMs : 10-15K USD
>> > - North America LGMs - 20-30K USD
>> > - Outside “Occidental North” is much higher (from
>> > rough evaluations).
>> >
>> > The numbers greatly vary from the needs of
>> > travellers and we have no way of accurately
>> > predicting this until late in the process of
>> > organising a LGM (ie, after we know who’s coming
>> > from which team, who makes a talk, who animates a
>> > workshop, who’s in need of travel sponsoring).
>> >
>> > If you can have money from Google (say, they reserve
>> > an envelope of 15K for Sevilla), the best way to
>> > handle it would be through them directly (Google
>> > money to sponsored participant directly), using
>> > their administrative way, forms, money handling,
>> etc.
>> >
>> > If this is not feasible but Google accepts to
>> > sponsor the event, then we need an organisation to
>> > handle this.
>> >
>> > From experience, the reimbursement process is not
>> > easy because of the many variables that are unknown
>> > at some point in the reimbursement process,
>> > including bad bank infos, missing documents,
>> > impossibility to handle a reimbursement based on
>> > where in the world the transaction ends (some money
>> > get stuck months in intermediary banks). Probably
>> > things that a company such as Google would handle
>> best.
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > To those who have been participating in the past
>> > discussions on that subject:
>> >
>> > 1. I am permanently out of this process now, given
>> > a) the level of dissatisfaction and b) the level
>> > of non-enthusiasm the detailed proposals I’ve
>> > made to solve the issue in a sustainable manner
>> > have received.
>> > 2. We definitely had a final decision of moving to
>> > a international non-profit organisation who
>> > already handles the money of many FLOSS
>> > projects, for a decent fee. Side note: I am
>> > *very surprised* to see that in the past 3
>> > years, and after the heavy discussions we had
>> > about finances, nothing has moved forward
>> > (although the decision was made). Lots of talks,
>> > no action.
>> >
>> > It’s never to late for action. Either give up on
>> > reimbursements or make it happen.
>> >
>> > To me, if Dave can have Google be on our side again
>> > and handle the reimbursements, I support this
>> > strongly. I think it’s the most simple way and it
>> > will take away from us the most difficult task in
>> > the organisation of LGM.
>> >
>> > As a long time LGM supporter and organiser, I am
>> > still ready to help, with other stuff.
>> >
>> > Have a wonderful day!
>> >
>> > Louis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 18, 2017 10:38 AM, "Gregory Pittman"
>> > <gpittman at iglou.com <mailto:gpittman at iglou.com
>> >>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > On 11/18/2017 10:01 AM, ale rimoldi wrote:
>> > > hi
>> > >
>> > > so, if i understand it correctly, the
>> > current status is that we will
>> > > not have any "official" reimbursement of
>> > travel costs from the global
>> > > lgm for 2018.
>> > >
>> > > if anybody is not comfortable with this,
>> > please step up before the next
>> > > lgm meeting and let us discuss it!
>> > >
>> > > (for reference: it has also been suggested
>> > that we should get (and
>> > > help...) the teams to collect their own
>> > money).
>> > >
>> >
>> > I think another way to look at this is to
>> > try to see it from the
>> > outside. Why would or should some outside
>> > organization donate to this
>> > meeting? What's in it for them? We know it
>> > doesn't have to be some
>> > monetary return for some corporation, but
>> > still, of the various meetings
>> > and organizations that are out there, why
>> > donate to LGM?
>> >
>> > We have to try to begin to answer this
>> question.
>> >
>> > Having said this, I have put out a feeler to
>> > Red Hat, and so far the
>> > response has been rather feeble.
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>> > _____________________________
>> __________________
>> > Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
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>> > <https://lists.freedesktop.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers
>> > Dave
>> >
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>> --
>> ale [414c45.net · wwb.cc · @414c45]
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