[LGM] today's meeting

[Gregory Pittman]

Hi,

Here is the log of today's IRC meeting. This started at 21:00 CET.

Greg

[3:00:05 PM EST] <soenke>	hi. and sorry for the confusion.
[3:00:35 PM EST] <laraaaa>	hi soenke! hi all!
[3:01:38 PM EST] <gregp_>	yo!
[3:01:57 PM EST] <soenke>	gather ideas for an agenda? on my list: let's check the call (since that has to go out). Then funding.
[3:02:39 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i'd add website - 2019 is not live/redirecting yet
[3:02:40 PM EST] <a-l-e>	good evening
[3:03:31 PM EST] <soenke>	no it is https://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2019/call-for-participation/
[3:03:34 PM EST] <laraaaa>	hi a-l-e! good to see ya :-)
[3:03:35 PM EST] <gregp_>	probably the redirecting is simple, right a-l-e?
[3:03:54 PM EST] <a-l-e>	yep, as soon as the site is ready we can now redirect.
[3:04:04 PM EST] <soenke>	key visual for 2019 also almost ready, sorry f the delay
[3:04:08 PM EST] <a-l-e>	for me, it just needs a logo instead of cactus...
[3:04:25 PM EST] Join	gingercoons (~ginger at 91.141.166.68) has joined this channel.
[3:04:30 PM EST] <gregp_>	unless there are cacti in Saarbrucken
[3:04:34 PM EST] <laraaaa>	well, it still has undesigned wordpress theme...
[3:05:03 PM EST] <a-l-e>	well, we can use it as a default page even if it is undesigned...
[3:05:09 PM EST] <laraaaa>	yeah, logo
[3:05:10 PM EST] <gregp_>	to me, it mainly needs much more information
[3:05:17 PM EST] <a-l-e>	but we need to remove the default image.
[3:05:18 PM EST] <gregp_>	information that's useful
[3:06:33 PM EST] <soenke>	ok if we start on the page - we'll add info on accommodation / hotels and relevant venues. and key issues like birdwatching opps, I do recall your email greg
[3:07:05 PM EST] 	 * a-l-e must have missed something : - )
[3:07:48 PM EST] <gregp_>	well, the birdwatching is for my wife, who probably won't be at lgm
[3:08:26 PM EST] <gregp_>	soenke: do you have some local organizations lined up to help with the planning?
[3:09:42 PM EST] <laraaaa>	++ code of conduct
[3:10:13 PM EST] <gregp_>	we don't need to reinvent/modify the code, do we?
[3:10:40 PM EST] <laraaaa>	nope, just need to add it, cant find it on the 2019 website at the moment
[3:10:48 PM EST] <soenke>	yes: at K8, we'll have a team of 5 people, plus a group from the art academy as well as the university. there are also hackerspaces such as hacksaar.de and a few user groups.
[3:11:06 PM EST] <soenke>	re code of conduct, added to the list, thx.
[3:11:08 PM EST] <gregp_>	great! the more the merrier
[3:11:38 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i mean code of conduct will be nice to be updated with some details about how things are managed in case of an incident, but that we can do in may in person...
[3:12:07 PM EST] <laraaaa>	and have a bof or something...
[3:12:12 PM EST] <gingercoons>	laraaaa: we could soon start the discussion about who contact people will be, though
[3:12:20 PM EST] <laraaaa>	yup
[3:12:53 PM EST] <gregp_>	soenke: have you thought of a theme for LGM 2019?
[3:12:54 PM EST] <soenke>	how do y'all feel about the call text? same as 2018, any need to change anything before it goes out?
[3:14:24 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i'm fine with it unless there's a desire to have a theme?
[3:15:05 PM EST] <a-l-e>	in your plans, how big the lgm will be?
[3:15:12 PM EST] <soenke>	re themes: too many still. there are local discussions, happy to share some of those as interest in decentralized tech grows.
[3:15:31 PM EST] <a-l-e>	(how many people you think you will be able to host?)
[3:16:32 PM EST] <soenke>	size: that's one of things i wanted to discuss. the venue we had a mind http://resonanzen.eu/pingusson-bau/ is good for 150 people. but if we need more we have other options.
[3:16:43 PM EST] <soenke>	we have had conferences of up to 450 people.
[3:16:43 PM EST] <a-l-e>	personally, i have the feeling that saarbrücken is nicely in the middle of so many people that people will come anyway... but having a focus might help attracting more people.
[3:20:07 PM EST] <laraaaa>	nice looking space, is there a lecture theatre?
[3:21:12 PM EST] <soenke>	i like the theme idea but am a little unsure as to how abstract / concrete they should be. what we have a lot here are discussions around free software in cultural heritage (we've just been through a series of projects around the european cultural heritage year, with a lot of interest in 3d scanning, archives, photogrammetry, light field / depth imaging, motion capture). then add to that decentralized tech (i work with
[3:21:12 PM EST] <soenke>	resonate.is, part of RChain, so tech coops / collaborative economy etc).
[3:22:17 PM EST] <soenke>	lecture theater: we can either use the one at the academy (across the street) or set one up here. we also thought of a big tent in the former embassy's garden, a beautiful space for picnics / concerts etc.
[3:22:59 PM EST] <a-l-e>	nice : - )
[3:23:41 PM EST] <laraaaa>	in past, programme committee would have a collective go at themed call during one of the irc meetings, then polish via email between the committee ppl
[3:23:41 PM EST] <gregp_>	I don't think there is a reason to force some theme as if it's essential. One thing that each LGM has done though is to have some unique design and artwork on the site for the particular meeting
[3:23:42 PM EST] <a-l-e>	the topic you're mentioning are not the typical lgm ones... so we have to make sure that we can attract both the speakers and the public.
[3:24:16 PM EST] <gingercoons>	in general, if you have a theme that particularly moves you, it's very possible to couch it in the call in a way that still invites off-theme proposals
[3:25:26 PM EST] <gregp_>	at this point LGM and many of its projects are quite mature (I didn't say old), which may obviate the need for a theme.
[3:25:40 PM EST] <a-l-e>	i think that we compare saarbrücken and leipzig for the type of public that will "automatically" come...
[3:25:59 PM EST] <soenke>	ok. then maybe some of these local research devs (happy to work on this in / with the programme committee) are stuff for optional workshops. there's plenty of graphics / imaging / visual computing-related tech dev going in and it might be nice to set up some open lab-type spaces just to ply with / showcase protoypes.
[3:26:17 PM EST] <gingercoons>	but a theme does open it up to people who aren't part of the group of "usual suspects"
[3:26:19 PM EST] <a-l-e>	... if we want to attract a different public we will have to do some specific "work".
[3:26:42 PM EST] <a-l-e>	(and leipzig was a good place for attracting the public! ... for the ones who were not there : - )
[3:26:52 PM EST] <gregp_>	gingercoons: don't you think a lot of the issue there is getting the word about LGM out to these people?
[3:27:10 PM EST] <laraaaa>	https://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2014/call-for-participation-2/index.html
[3:27:19 PM EST] <gregp_>	who are they, and how do we reach them?
[3:27:19 PM EST] <gingercoons>	totally, but we've had different communication strategies in different years
[3:27:37 PM EST] <gingercoons>	and for some people who don't think of LGM as home, a theme can help get them interested
[3:28:12 PM EST] <gregp_>	as a-l-e says, Saarbrucken is situated where the potential audience covers a lot of territory/territories
[3:29:09 PM EST] <gingercoons>	which is excellent. but if the local orgs have an interest in a specific thing, then we shouldn't foreclose on that possibility if it's relevant
[3:29:10 PM EST] <gregp_>	at any rate, all this emphases the need to beef up the website so people believe something interesting will happen there
[3:29:40 PM EST] <gregp_>	I think we should rely on soenke for the local vibe
[3:30:11 PM EST] <a-l-e>	what i wanted to say: if we do nothing  to promote the lgm we will have three days of talks and about 150 people.
[3:30:19 PM EST] <gingercoons>	of course, but one of the roles of the program committee is to help the local orgs elaborating a call if they want that kind of help
[3:30:51 PM EST] <a-l-e>	if we want to do more, we can but it won't work without real work in promoting it and  we will need to make a good "offer".
[3:31:11 PM EST] <soenke>	audiences: one is partners. so one example from luxembourg (an hour from here, just to give you an idea of "regional") is cna.lu, they do stuff like http://www.cnadigital.lu/. for us that's a key audience. then makerscenes: you have http://tcrm-blida.com/ currently evolving to bring makerism and collective intelligence design (what we used to call p2p more or less). also technoport.lu. so what i am saying - all of these partners
[3:31:11 PM EST] <soenke>	bring audiences.
[3:31:20 PM EST] <gregp_>	I'm not saying they should do it in isolation from us... we do need to have the local buy-in
[3:31:57 PM EST] <gregp_>	soenke: Ok, now I see you getting somewhere with this
[3:33:23 PM EST] <gregp_>	one of the things we perhaps deal with these days is the rarity of actual physical presence of people at meetings, rather than distant connections via some media
[3:33:35 PM EST] <soenke>	we def want that kind of help ginger. i like the leipzig "special focus" and am pretty sure in our area it woudl be around decentralized tech / collaborative economy issues. we work with https://www.ouishare.net/ but there is also  - probably farthest from lgm - an old-school cooperativism scene that is very interested in meeting you all.
[3:34:49 PM EST] <gregp_>	we want people to put down their iPhones long enough to come to LGM
[3:35:48 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i'd suggest to send a programme comittee volunteers via the mailing list and have a few more people involved with this... it will be surely needed when the work arrives
[3:35:53 PM EST] <soenke>	they weill. which is why i think we should pick the venue carefully. but another road for a theme is to take up the lgm-has-matured-now-lets-cooperate-with-other-networks impulse. i have always been a fan of networks-of-networks gatherings but then that does take the focus away from the-community-meets
[3:35:57 PM EST] <gingercoons>	soenke: judging by 2018, I think there's a lot of potential in getting the more "old school" groups in. also successful in Brussels back in the day
[3:35:59 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i meant call via the list
[3:36:43 PM EST] <gingercoons>	seconding laraaaa on the need to reconstitute a larger program committee. it's dwindled a bit in the last while
[3:36:45 PM EST] <laraaaa>	+ given the late may dates, think about pushing the deadline wee bit later?? what is sentiment on that?
[3:37:00 PM EST] <soenke>	excellent. old school is important, there are a lot of people (this is from way back when) engaged in "technology critique" (or what was then called social tech design).
[3:37:12 PM EST] <soenke>	deadline: what is the latest possible for people who will need visas?
[3:37:34 PM EST] <gingercoons>	three months tends to be the usual worst case visa scenario
[3:37:48 PM EST] <gingercoons>	but I can't remember when we last managed that kind of advance notice
[3:38:15 PM EST] <laraaaa>	yeah, it is 3 months on average
[3:38:55 PM EST] <soenke>	i think we can be pretty fast in selecting papers / presentations. key for us is to know to what extent these decisions are linked to the reimbursement of travel cost. meaning: even if we decided early, people might wait to be sure that there is money for travel.
[3:39:17 PM EST] <soenke>	so we really need to figure that out by january.
[3:40:14 PM EST] <gingercoons>	which can be a hurdle, depending on how the fundraising goes.
[3:40:48 PM EST] <laraaaa>	how about early jan (our deadline to push call out) early feb deadline, mid feb notifications of acceptance; programme publishing early march?
[3:40:55 PM EST] <gregp_>	I don't know that you can call for participation too early. 
[3:41:43 PM EST] <soenke>	I'd rather get the call out end of nov. with a submission deadline of mid-jan. that'll give people 3 months to apply for visa.
[3:42:21 PM EST] <gregp_>	is there a reason to cut off the submissions so early?
[3:42:38 PM EST] <laraaaa>	then next meet on 21st can be focused on the call exclusively, maybe website too..
[3:42:38 PM EST] <gingercoons>	those sound like totally reasonable timelines. 6 weeks/2 months to promote and submit is pretty reasonable, I think
[3:42:59 PM EST] <soenke>	nope. only the visa issue, since people tend to what to know before making travel arrangements. and it helps to keep travel cost low.
[3:43:19 PM EST] <gregp_>	what happens if by mid-january you don't have enough submissions?
[3:43:43 PM EST] <soenke>	lack of submissions - how has that been dealt with in the past
[3:44:04 PM EST] Join	houz (~houz at unaffiliated/houz) has joined this channel.
[3:44:12 PM EST] <gingercoons>	you can always do a deadline extension if necessary, combined with an extra publicity push
[3:45:22 PM EST] <gregp_>	does anyone think that this recent news about IBM buying Red Hat is of any interest to LGM (i.e., fundraising)?
[3:45:57 PM EST] <gregp_>	not that Red Hat has ever been very interested in LGM AFAICT
[3:46:17 PM EST] <laraaaa>	it's of interest fullstop, how does this impact lgm fundraising though?
[3:46:39 PM EST] <gingercoons>	I don't think we've had money from them recently, if ever
[3:46:44 PM EST] <gregp_>	could IBM be someone to contact....?
[3:47:25 PM EST] <gregp_>	how "libre" does IBM want to be?
[3:47:30 PM EST] 	 * a-l-e still wonders if IBM will manage to correctly print his flyers and material for tomorrow morning : - )
[3:47:43 PM EST] <gregp_>	hehe
[3:47:45 PM EST] <laraaaa>	hahahahhahahahahahahah
[3:48:33 PM EST] <gregp_>	but I don't think there is some big anti-IBM sentiment in the open source world
[3:49:17 PM EST] <gingercoons>	given that google is one of our major funders, I suspect IBM wouldn't be a very notable problem, if they magically offered us money
[3:49:54 PM EST] <soenke>	is google coming thru with support for 2019?
[3:49:58 PM EST] <gregp_>	the biggest question is how do you ask "IBM"?
[3:50:58 PM EST] <gingercoons>	soenke: I don't think we have any word yet. I believe Dave made that happen last year
[3:50:58 PM EST] <a-l-e>	with google we have a "common interest"... i'm not aware of ibm having any business unit that really relates to the lgm.
[3:51:12 PM EST] <laraaaa>	re; google, best to ask dave
[3:51:24 PM EST] <a-l-e>	(that been said, iirc in the past google sponsored the lgm also before google fonts existed)
[3:52:25 PM EST] <soenke>	we can approach ibm (lots of links via dfki.de) if you think that makes sense. who else? did gimp etc sponsor in the past?
[3:52:41 PM EST] <gregp_>	all the same, we have to suspect that there is more to the acquisition of Red Hat than just a business deal
[3:52:45 PM EST] <a-l-e>	yes gimp has been a sponsor.
[3:52:49 PM EST] <laraaaa>	red hat supported tate events: https://www.redhat.com/en/open-source-stories/art-of-exchange
[3:52:51 PM EST] <a-l-e>	(not always a volonteer one)
[3:53:04 PM EST] <soenke>	does anyone want to approach gimp re 2019?
[3:53:30 PM EST] <gregp_>	aren't they always here?
[3:53:34 PM EST] <a-l-e>	there was an article some time ago about how gimp wanted to spend their money.
[3:53:46 PM EST] <gingercoons>	polite to ask if they want to keep coughing up money :)
[3:53:47 PM EST] <a-l-e>	i had the feeling that the lgm was mentioned, there.
[3:54:13 PM EST] <a-l-e>	... there are gimp people loged in here right now...
[3:54:14 PM EST] <gingercoons>	worth asking schumaml for confirmation
[3:54:24 PM EST] <soenke>	the funding we apply for locally is mainy from the state's ministry of economics (they are interested in smes figuring out p2p logics and open source-based business models, that#s their ,motiovation).
[3:54:58 PM EST] <gregp_>	I do some writing for opensource.com, so I may try to feel my way around Red Hat from that direction...
[3:56:01 PM EST] <laraaaa>	i'll try to find a name of a red hat person who i met at one of the tate exchange events and fwd it to you @gregp_
[3:56:08 PM EST] <a-l-e>	ok, gimp did not ask us, but they "officially" plan to give us money.
[3:56:12 PM EST] <a-l-e>	https://www.gimp.org/news/2018/08/30/handshake-gnome-donation/
[3:56:41 PM EST] <soenke>	ok i can approach dave re google. any need for / interest in a crowdfunding campaign?
[3:56:54 PM EST] <a-l-e>	soenke, dave is active in the lgm mailing list.
[3:57:02 PM EST] <gregp_>	thanks, laraaaa
[3:57:10 PM EST] <a-l-e>	he has been an active participant of many lgm.
[3:57:11 PM EST] <soenke>	ok will ask him there (i think i already did...)
[3:58:00 PM EST] <a-l-e>	for me it will be soon time for some sleep... i've been coughing hard for the last week and tomorrow i have two classes with kids...
[3:58:45 PM EST] <laraaaa>	okidoki a-l-e, shall we wrap up for tonight?
[3:59:25 PM EST] <a-l-e>	well, the discussion is not going forward in a linear way... but you don't have to stop because i fall asleeop : - )
[4:00:08 PM EST] <a-l-e>	i think that we should make a decision on when and how the website becomes the default one.
[4:00:29 PM EST] <a-l-e>	and the timeline for the call for participation (and giving an ok to the text proposed by soenke)
[4:00:41 PM EST] <gregp_>	soenke needs to get his team to put some more beef into it
[4:01:17 PM EST] <a-l-e>	for the website, i'm for a light editing (removing the default image and putting in an lgm logo) and later publish a nice website.
[4:01:24 PM EST] <laraaaa>	we touched on all 3 points in the agenda: website>>needs polish and content; call>>lets do it next meet+call for programme ppl; funding>> it's brewing ;-)
[4:01:35 PM EST] <soenke>	exactly. so what i take away from this: work on the call / optional theme via the list and then finalize in two weeks. we'll work on the current website some more until the end of november and then ask y'all for feedback. some people will contact some other people re funding so we get a better sense of what else is needed.
[4:01:51 PM EST] <a-l-e>	we can redirect to it as soon as this is done and then officially do the announce of the very site when the call for participation is ready.
[4:02:06 PM EST] <soenke>	key thing - lgm 2019 will happen :)
[4:02:14 PM EST] <laraaaa>	yey!
[4:02:18 PM EST] <a-l-e>	: - )
[4:02:19 PM EST] <gingercoons>	:D
[4:03:02 PM EST] <soenke>	thx all for time, ideas and energy, looking fwd to list / next chat in 2 wks
[4:03:18 PM EST] <laraaaa>	is anybody going to send this to the list?
[4:03:25 PM EST] <a-l-e>	same day?
[4:03:36 PM EST] <laraaaa>	ok with me