<div dir="ltr">Fragmented answers within Dave’s email below...<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-11-27 18:25 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:dave@lab6.com">dave@lab6.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im">On 27 November 2017 at 18:01, Tobias Ellinghaus <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:houz@gmx.de">houz@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail-">Am Montag, 27. November 2017, 16:41:01 CET schrieb Frank Trampe:<br>
> 19% is a rather hefty cut. I would be happy to volunteer some time to save<br>
> some money.<br>
><br>
> Soenke, could we get a discount from K8 if we submit a final list ourselves?<br>
<br>
</span><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail-">Quoting Soenke:<br>
> that is what overhead charges cover. For K8, it's 15 % f research-related<br>
> projects (national or EU funds commonly include overhead flats between 20<br>
> and 25 % per cent).<br>
><br>
> The tax rate depends on whether we are talking donation (tax free, but also<br>
> no mention of donor allowed) or sponsoring (usually 19%).<br>
<br>
</span>it seems the 19% are the share for the German government and nothing Soenke<br>
can give discounts on. Unless you want to see LGM in the next Panama Papers<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>Oh! I see, I mis-read Soenke's email! I read it was 15% _or_ 19%, but actually she meant its a 15% charge for holding and administering the funds and potentially a 19% EU VAT tax if it isn't a donation. </div><div><br></div><div>However, since this would be funds from the USA, there wouldn't be any VAT; however the organization would have to provide the appropriate W8-BEN form to prevent the IRS levying a 35% tax on the wire transfer. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div>15% is better than 19% :) </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">On 27 November 2017 at 17:55, Louis Desjardins <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:louis.desjardins@gmail.com">louis.desjardins@g<wbr>mail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail-"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">K8 will take a [15%] cut for handling everything. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div>SPI asks for 4%. To the best of my knowledge, GNOME was just about the same. As a comparison, 19% cut seems rather high.</div><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail-"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div></div></blockquote></span></span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's 4% for handling the money only, not adminstering it though, right?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That’s for both receiving the money and sending it out to reimburse people’s travel fees. <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail-"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">That seems like the easiest solution and frees up Frank's volunteer time to do other stuff (like maybe help arrange the video recordings/streaming to be done using only libre software? :)<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span></span><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div>Dave, only to be sure I understand correctly what you say, do you mean that K8 could handle the money from Google to the extent of handling the reimbursements for 2018 (and then, maybe, follow up with 2019)? </div></span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I believe that is what Soenke said. Soenke, please confirm :) </div><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Do you evacuate totally SPI in that proposal? </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>Yes for this round of Google Fonts funding; no for future funds, and also no for the general LGM pledgie/etc funds.</div><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Would K8 be able to act as a SFH (secure funds holder)?<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>No, I believe that was not what Soenke offered. Again, please confirm :)</div><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div>I would still investigate with SPI if they would at least consider LGM to be a project member. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>I agree, I would like to see that happen</div><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Their statement is clear on their website and they can handle what we can’t handle anymore, at a reasonable cost. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>However, per <a target="_blank" href="http://spi-inc.org/projects/services">http://spi-inc.org/projects/se<wbr>rvices</a> they are merely a "Secure Funds Holder," not an active administrator, which is what [I believe] K8 provides.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>“SPI will accept donations and hold funds on behalf of associated
projects. Refunds for legitimate project expenses will be made from
funds
earmarked for an associated project with the consent of the project
liaison.” <br><br></div><div>This is basically the mechanics we had with GNOME and looks like the same is going to happen with SPI. Someone at LGM provides a list of people along with their receipts, sends them out and staff from the umbrella org manages the reimbursements. LGM is the “order giver” here (cannot be otherwise, in fact) and the umbrella org acts as the accounting dept.<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Also, if the PO from Google can be submitted before 2017 ends, </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>Actually I need this sorted within 14 days from now, or its next year :) <br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Got you. Time is what matters here. <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I see no accounting reasons that would prevent them to put the expanse in 2017 (provided their fiscal year ends on Dec. 31, which is not the case of all companies but only the case of all individuals).<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>(Except those individuals domiciled in the UK, who have an April 5th tax year lol)</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the info! <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div>If needed, I can make the first steps with SPI and keep you guys informed of how it goes. However I will not be the responsible person further than establishing the contact and maybe a few steps further. At some point, somebody else will have to step in. But this would at least require a formal decision (or the apparence of a formal decision) by the LGM community.<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>I think (a) that decision was already made and (b) Frank has already stepped in :) </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I only mentioned this because Frank seemed to have a bit too much on his shoulders. But of course, if there is one in the kitchen, no need to crowd the room!<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-im"><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div>Do we, or do we not, want to become member of SPI and have them handle our incoming money as well as our reimbursements (or other LGM expanses that fit into the SPI rules)?<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></span><div>I believe we do want LGM to become a member project of SPI, and have them handle our incoming money generally, but (a) that has more set up time than I have and (b) SPI doesn't actually administer the reimbursements, they just have a single "project liason" who presents them with the bank details and amounts to make the transfers to. <span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Here’s how it works at SPI:<br><br>“<b>Paying Project Expenses</b><p>The liaison can request payment of project expenses at any time by
sending a request to the treasurer. If the expense is legal, it will be
paid as soon as the Treasurer can reasonably manage it. Please note
that paying expenses usually means mailing checks, so payment generally
takes two weeks or more.</p>
<p>Requests for payment should be accompanied by paperwork detailing the
expense. If the paperwork is not electronic, it can be faxed or
posted. Generally, it is expected that individuals will pay the
expenses up front and be reimbursed by SPI, but advance payment can be
arranged with sufficient advance warning to the treasurer. The
Treasurer also has a credit card for online purchases which for some
reason
need to be made directly by SPI.</p>
<p>There are tax law restrictions on what SPI can legally pay for as a
501(c)3 Non-Profit. Common expenses like travel, equipment, flyers,
booths, conference expenses and legal help are generally fine, but some
items like software development contracting need to be handled
carefully. If the liaison is in doubt they should contact the
Treasurer.”<br></p></div><div>Source: <a href="https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/">https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/</a> <br><br></div><div>Plus, we can consider Dave Neary’s suggestion (that’s new info to me):<br><a href="https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/">https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/</a><br></div><div>They seem to be more “software only” oriented but LGM is the gathering of so many projects... Whether we fit in there is surely debatable! :)<br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span></div><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div> </div><div><br></div></font><div><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><font color="#888888">On 27 November 2017 at 17:42, Frank Trampe <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:frank.trampe@gmail.com">frank.trampe@gmail.com</a><wbr>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">And what if I could get a 501(c)3 to handle just this event for us, with an agreement in place by December 11th? I think that I could cut a deal for 5% or less if I prepare the disbursement list.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></font></span>Sure, that sounds more efficient. </div></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sounds good to me too.<br><br></div><div>Louis <br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-HOEnZb"><span class="gmail-"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><br class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" class="gmail_quote">On 27 November 2017 at 18:04, Joao S. O. Bueno <span dir="ltr"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:gwidion@gmail.com">gwidion@gmail.com</a>></span> <wbr>wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">WHat about the Prado Medialab, which hosted LGM Madrid?</blockquote></div></div><div><br></div></font></span>I don't think its worth shaking things up further right now. I have Plan B, K8, and Plan C, Frank's offer. Let's wait a few more days to see how these pan out and then think about Plans D and E :)<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></font></span></span></div></div><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><span class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-3869196071039773478gmail-m_-1383919250158361665gmail_signature">Cheers<br>Dave</div>
</font></span></font></span></div></div>
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