<div dir="ltr">I just talked to a PayPal representative. Friends and family is the right category for what we're doing (basically anything except payroll and purchases requiring buyer protection). The fees are usually 0.5%, higher in some places like Germany and Japan. Our transaction volume would qualify for upfront access to a bulk payment management feature that would allow us to import a spreadsheet of contacts and amounts (for confirmation after upload, of course). And, if we get non-profit status, we would get a further reduction in fees. Even if we pay the full 0.5%, it's totally worth it to me if it allows us to centralize payments, to abstract transcontinental transfers, to bypass collecting bank account details, and to cut administration time via a professional interface.<div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Frank Trampe <<a href="mailto:frank.trampe@gmail.com" target="_blank">frank.trampe@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Friends and family seemed like the category closest to what we're doing (specifically, a transaction for which buyer protection does not apply). I'll call to see whether we're allowed to use it for something like this.<div> </div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Jehan Pagès <<a href="mailto:jehan.marmottard@gmail.com" target="_blank">jehan.marmottard@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi! On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Frank Trampe <<a href="mailto:frank.trampe@gmail.com" target="_blank">frank.trampe@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > I know that it seems premature, but knowing in advance what the transfer > options are informs our planning. Assuming that the taxes for a European > organization aren't any worse than for an American organization, there will > be a question as to whether it's more efficient to have one on each > continent or not, and the administrative complexity of intercontinental > money transfers will weigh on that. > > PayPal charges fees for selling and for using credit card, but I think that > the fee for a non-sale transfer (assuming linked bank accounts on both ends) > is in the range that I described. I'll double-check later today. Actually I don't think Paypal has the concept of "reimbursement of travel" for its transfers. Paypal has mostly the concept of selling and buying with rates between 2.5 to 5% depending on your country and the country you send to. It also has the concept of sending money to "friends and family". And these have very low rate (they are even free when you send for instance from a EU country to another). Maybe that's what you were thinking about when you wrote about fees under 1%. But I would highly discourage trying to trick the system because we definitely can't consider than reimbursing people is the same as "sending money to a friend". My politics on these stuff is to do all by the rule. See: <a href="https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees</a> Alternatively (this is not on the main page), there is the concept of donation to non-profit which still has 2.2% of fee (so basically this is obviously the lower rate you can get since that's meant to be a discounted fee): <a href="https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/donations" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/donations</a> Basically the kind of transfer you are planning are not listed as possible actions by Paypal. If you want to carry on reimbursement through Paypal (especially if you have a lot to perform), I would highly advise to contact them directly and ask them if and how you can carry on such task. You don't want to see your Paypal account blocked with all the funds in it. Jehan <div class="m_-5150676237966672642HOEnZb"><div class="m_-5150676237966672642h5"> > What platform would you use for one of these cryptocurrency transfers? And > what's the user experience on each end? > > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno <<a href="mailto:gwidion@gmail.com" target="_blank">gwidion@gmail.com</a>> > wrote: >> >> On 29 November 2017 at 15:33, Frank Trampe <<a href="mailto:frank.trampe@gmail.com" target="_blank">frank.trampe@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> > Unless we run multiple organizations (one in North America, one in South >> > America, and one in Europe, perhaps), it will be necessary to disburse >> > money >> > across the Atlantic. The European and American banking systems are >> > rather >> > different. Europe uses IBAN transfers and shuns checks; the United >> > States >> > uses checks and lacks IBAN support. SWIFT transfers would work, but they >> > are >> > expensive, so we probably need to look at outside services that can >> > route >> > between banks. >> > >> > What are people's thoughts on these? >> > >> > PayPal Bank-to-Bank (0.5% to 2%) >> >> Paypall actually take a 6% gross share from whatever is paid through them. >> They can be "simple" but they are not cheap >> >> >> > Transferwise (1%) >> >> Transferwise is good! >> It has some restrictions, I don't know if in all countries, but, >> from Germany a Company could not use Tranferwise to send >> money to my Company in Brazil. >> >> >> > Western Union Bank-to-Bank ($10) >> This seems to work, but as the only time I actually used it, it was so >> much bureaucratic burden on my end, I would save this as last option. >> >> Cryptocurrencies: >> Dave mentioned en passant that "bitcoin transfers are expensive". >> They are not. And even if they are, one can use other of a number of >> cryptocurrencies, like Ethereum. >> >> I've been using that professionally: it is a fraction of cost, and 0 >> time money transfer - >> it is just that, in some cases, the recipient will have to know how to >> cash it. >> Not even in all cases. In Brazil, for example, there is a service that >> can take any amount >> in several of these cryptocurrencies and pay immediately any bank account. >> The major drawback of using crypto, IMHO, is for the sending entity >> justify purchasing the >> cryptocurrency as part of the refund (or other payment) process . That >> initial purchase is everything >> that would show up in any tradicional accounting methods. >> >> I'd say that among these 5 options, this is a settled matter until we >> have to actually make >> any of thes e transfers. >> >> js >> -><- >> _______________________________________________ >> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list >> <a href="mailto:Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org</a> >> <a href="https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting</a> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list > <a href="mailto:Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org</a> > <a href="https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting</a> > </div></div>-- ZeMarmot open animation film <a href="http://film.zemarmot.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://film.zemarmot.net</a> Patreon: <a href="https://patreon.com/zemarmot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://patreon.com/zemarmot</a> Tipeee: <a href="https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot</a> <div class="m_-5150676237966672642HOEnZb"><div class="m_-5150676237966672642h5">_______________________________________________ Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list <a href="mailto:Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">Libre-graphics-meeting@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <a href="https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div> </div>