[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 140178] Change "Outline & List" to "Level & List" as tab label in Paragraph and Paragraph Style dialogs

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140178

sdc.blanco at youmail.dk changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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           See Also|                            |https://bugs.documentfounda
                   |                            |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
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--- Comment #13 from sdc.blanco at youmail.dk ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #11)
> But in the end I believe users don't read those details. 
Agree -- in general.

> The alliteration reads awkward.
Agree.  "List & Level" would "sound" better. (-:

But I am content to leave this as WF.

Both “List & Level” and “Outline & List” are meaningful labels in relation to
the tab, so then it becomes a question of which words signal the important
functions of the tab.

I chose “Level” because it is the attribute being modified by "Outline Level".
Also, the word “Outline” gives a false impression that the numbering hierarchy
is created here in the paragraph (style) dialog, or that Outline Level has
something to do with the lists.  It doesn't. [ Reason (c) in comment 0 also
demonstrated that confusion - but reasons (a) and (b) are still valid. ]

> Given that outline is kind of a list, how about "List Style"?
I believe you share a misunderstanding here with Dieter in relation to this
particular dialog tab -- which makes it difficult to discuss. (In this
exceptional case, the label may make a difference!) 

>Dieter from comment #8> I'm not a native speaker...Chicago Manual of Style 
>Dieter from comment #8> If "outline" is related to lists
The issue here is conceptual/technical, not linguistic.  It cannot be solved by
looking at dictionary or style manual definitions; it requires understanding
what the controls are actually doing in this context (no matter what they are
called, though in this case, we must use the terminology provided by the UI.).

I have already accepted WF.  But for the sake of clarity:

The critical point is that the word "level" is used with two different
independent meanings for "Outline Level" and "List Level" (in the LO interface
and in the underlying ODF).

The expression "Outline Level" comes presumably from the ODF (19.850
text:outline-level), which is carried over to the UI. But that "level" is
distinct from the attribute "level" (19.834 text:level), which is used with
list elements.  In the UI, it appears that "Level" is also carried over to the
UI (in the Position and Customize tabs in Bullets and Numbering dialog). The
only place in the UI where I can find "List Level" at present is in the
Condition tab in the PS dialog -- and that is because I changed it recently). 
("List level" also appears throughout comments in the source code.)

In the PS dialog tab under discussion here, there is no connection or
dependence between Outline Level and List Style (List Level). It is possible to
set an Outline Level without a List or apply a List without setting an Outline
Level.

The "connection" between "Outline Level" and "List Level" is created by the
Chapter Numbering dialog, which exists to create an apparent dependence between
Outline Level and List Level. (In fact, the dialog lets you assign a List Level
1 numbering to a Heading N which is assigned to an Outline Level). This
"assignment" is preserved/enforced by the UI, because the PS dialog prevents
editing Outline Level for the Heading N paragraph styles. (and if you choose to
use another PS in the Chapter Numbering dialog, then you will not be able to
set the Outline Level in the PS dialog -- by design).

The proposal to use "Level" instead of "Outline" was mostly to steer people
away from thinking that this tab has something to do with lists and outlines --

-- but following the principle "renaming … UI elements has to be an exception”,
then this reason ("steering away") is not a strong enough justification for an
exception right now.

But I hope this ticket highlights an issue that will get further attention. If
the Bullets and Numbering dialog gets developed further, it might be worth
considering using the label "List Level" instead of "Level" in the Position and
Customize tabs.

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