[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 141128] Does Bullets and Numbering toolbar define "different paragraph levels" - as the online help claims?

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141128

sdc.blanco at youmail.dk changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |libreoffice-ux-advise at lists
                   |                            |.freedesktop.org
             Blocks|                            |139667
           Keywords|                            |needsUXEval

--- Comment #2 from sdc.blanco at youmail.dk ---
The immediate motivation for this ticket is the need to correct a mistake in:
https://help.libreoffice.org/7.2/en-US/text/swriter/guide/insert_tab_innumbering.html

because it is the final "blocker" for bug 139667.

In relation to immediate need (first question to UXEval):  

I propose:

(a) that "list level" be used to replace "chapter level" in the three places
where it appears (in the just-cited help page).
(b) the title of that page becomes: Changing the List Level of List Paragraphs

NB.  the term "list level" does not appear anywhere in the online "help". It is
barely mentioned in the "Writer's Guide 6.4" - I could only find it on p. 264,
and used in a way that suggests inadequate conceptual understanding.

This is why I bring this seemingly "trivial" question about "list level" to
UXEval.

In relation to further development, if "list level" is accepted, then (second
question/proposal to UXEval):

Modify this ticket/summary to become an enhancement request to develop a
standard terminology (also in the UI) for how to discuss "lists" and "list
levels" in relation to "outline" in relation to "list level".

The choice of terminology is tricky here -- because of potential confusion with
"outline level" (which is unrelated). (See bug 140178, comment 13).


I would propose:

A. introduce the term "list outline" (to differentiate it from "outline level")
to refer to the relation to between "list level" and "list outline". Then help
(and UI) could refer to the "the list level of a paragraph in a list outline"

B. In the Bullets and Numbering dialog UI: change "Level" to "List Level" in
the Position and Customize tabs (to emphasize its meaning and differentiate
from Outline Level in Paragraph dialog)

C.  Define "list level" and "list outline" in the Glossary.

D.  Decide whether the word "hierarchy" or "hierarchical" should be used in
relation to lists, or if it is possible/acceptable to just use "list outline"
(with a glossary definition).  (my opinion: see if "hierarch*" can be avoided).

At present, the words "list" and "level" , "outline", and "hierarchy" do not
appear anywhere in the General Glossary (
https://help.libreoffice.org/7.2/en-US/text/shared/00/00000005.html )

E.  Update help pages to use the list terminology correctly/consistently,
ideally with links to the Glossary definitions (see comment 0 for current
examples that speak about level in the numbering or bullets hierarchy).

F. Consider adding some List Styles that are "outlines". 

Technically all the list styles are outlines already, because there are
attributes for all levels.  The present workaround, as known (bug 140752), is
to simply choose an Outline from the Outline tab in B&N dialog for a list
paragraph with a list style applied, and your list style will be "updated" with
that Outline. But maybe that bug will be fixed, and then it might be a nice
feature to have some List styles predefined with "standard?" outlines.

G. I stop here -- there are probably more useful adjustments to be made...but
maybe these suggestions are enough to motivate and inspire further development
and clarification of the List UI (and terminology).


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139667
[Bug 139667] Should Bulleted and Numbered Lists be distinguished clearly  from
"List Styles" in the UI; consistent use of "List Style" in Writer UI, and stop
using the expression "numbering style" ?
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