[Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal

Sun Oct 7 06:44:36 PDT 2012

Le 2012-10-07 05:27, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 06:42:42PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote:
>> Le 2012-10-06 17:20, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit :
>>> On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote:
>>>> No sure if we were talking about "empty hall", I am hoping to help
>>>> fill them. :-)
>>>
>>> Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early
>> evening, so
>>> that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;)
>>
>> Sorry, doesn't work for me. If the place is too full with noise, I
>> can't hear myself think and I go elsewhere where people like me
>> congregate ... in this case the AOO forums.
>
> _If_ the place is too full with noise, we will quickly be able to split out
> forums. My suggestion is just not to do that earlier. ;)

Well, I guess we can just agree to disagree and wait for others to chime 
in on the discussion. If our resources allow us to do it, then I say go 
for it, no point driving the race car slowly on the track when you have 
the team and resources behind you. :-)

>
>>> Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum?
>> If not, I
>>> would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates
>> and asks for
>>> it.
>>
>> Well, I would rather give it a try, we do have a template site that
>> we should be supporting with a forums. This would give us a chance
>> to get more traction right from the start.
>
> I dont believe that a separate forum gives you more traction, if you do not
> have 3-5 regulars in it -- rather the opposite. As both closing forums and
> underpopulated/abandoned forums are demotivational and unhelpful, I am stand by
> my opinion that not having one at the start is better. Once 3-5 regulars for
> that topic are around and ask for it, we can add that forum -- which is
> motivating as it suggests growth and gives the forum a better kickstart (esp.
> since we can make an announcement for the start of that forum on its own then).
>

Well, we could have that forum already developed and easily identify the 
2-3 regulars who are interested if they come. There is no problem with 
collapsing a forum and blending it in to another later after having 
given it a try.

But then, again, we can agree to disagree on this as well.

>> All in all I can't say I agree on your approach to forums. You seem
>> to expect the brunt of all activity on a forums to come from the
>> participants. More of a "let's wait for them to come" approach.
>> Hence, the lets start with few categories and break out later. This
>> is more of a passive approach to running a forums
>>
>> I, however, think that a good categorization of a forums will have a
>> better appeal to our users and with good moderation will fill. I
>> also think that we should not only moderate, but also create "buzz"
>> on our forums. Moderators are not only there to help direct traffic
>> (un-obtrusively) but also create "buzz" and discussion. If
>> moderators sign up for the job, then they should commit to grow
>> their forums and make them attractive for user appeal. If a forum
>> has become silent, then it would be up to the forums admins to sit
>> and determine the actions to market and help popularize it. This is
>> more of an aggressive approach to growing a forums.
>
> You currently have 5 forum coordinators, which is a very good size to start
> off (a bigger group will only lead to more communication overhead). If you want
> to actively vitalize the forums, you should not start with much more than ~2 forums
> per coordinator, otherwise you stretch yourself too thin.

We are planning on 2 per forum, we are at the categorization point now 
and will follow through with the search for moderators on our next step.

>
> As you grow the team, win more regulars, admins and coordinators, you can
> easily add categories. You will do anyway -- no matter what initial
> categorization you setup. Thus the _initial_ categorization is important to be
> optimized to generate growth in the first 2-3 month, it should not be the
> 'final' or 'perfect' categorization for a huge board system (because the first
> is the precondition for the second).
>
> You should also make sure to empower those joining you as forum regulars and
> coordinators and there is no easier way to archive that than by letting them
> take part of the growth by creating 'their' additional forum.
>
> Linus Torvalds said on 2004-10-25:
>> Nobody should start to undertake a large project. You start with a small
>> trivial project, and you should never expect it to get large. If you do, you'll
>> just overdesign and generally think it is more important than it likely is at
>> that stage. Or worse, you might be scared away by the sheer size of the work
>> you envision. So start small, and think about the details. Don't think about
>> some big picture and fancy design. If it doesn't solve some fairly immediate
>> need, it's almost certainly over-designed. And don't expect people to jump in
>> and help you. That's not how these things work. You need to get something
>> half-way useful first, and then others will say "hey, that almost works for
>> me", and they'll get involved in the project.
>
> ^- THAT is critical advise here.

Yes, though the opposite can be said that if you under-design then, you 
trivialize what would have been important to some and have them go else 
where.

I don't think the user section categories is over-designed. It is what a 
use expects to see when she/he arrives on a forums for our particular 
software. We should have enough confidence in our software to offer 
users these and to make their lives easier.

>
>> We should also keep in mind that some of our long-time users are on
>> the AOO forums being helped and the categorization there seems to
>> work quite well. You only need to look at their numbers to realize
>> that common sense categorization works[1] and where new forums
>> appear these are more of a targeted and deliberate choice (as in the
>> case of the US marketing forums, this is more of a concerted group
>> effort from the part of the whole TDF/LibreOffice team).
>
> The best way to involve them then is to invite them to take part in the organic
> growth of the forums. The best way to do that, is to start with a small and
> minimal set of forums, be open to change and let them take part in the growth.
>

I can only imagine that they will only ask for the same forums as they 
are leaving. Once there are here they will certainly be welcomed to join 
in on the growth.

> Best,
>
> Bjoern

Thanks for your comments. These are much appreciated and will help in 
getting a consensus on this.

Cheers,

Marc

-- 
Marc Paré
Marc at MarcPare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org