[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 91820] Reorganization of the menu bar for Calc

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820

--- Comment #12 from Cor Nouws <cno at nouenoff.nl> ---
Hi Jay, Eike,

(In reply to Yousuf (Jay) Philips from comment #10)
> Glad to get your input on this as you the calc maintainer. :D
> 
> (In reply to Eike Rathke from comment #9)
> > * Sheet
> >   * Fill Cells
> >     * Was in the Edit menu as Fill.
> >     * Makes more sense in the Edit menu, because filling cells is an
> >       edit action, not a sheet action.
> 
> Pretty much everything that is done in calc involves edit/modifying of a
> sheet/column/row/cell, which is why quite a number of these functions were
> moved from the edit and insert menus into a dedicated Sheet menu. So now a
> user can go into Sheet to insert or delete a cell, as well as fill or clear
> a cell. The name Sheet encompasses all features of a sheet, similar to the
> Table menu in writer encompasses all features of a table.

It's new, but not bad.

> >   * Names Cells
> >     * Was in the Insert menu as Names.
> >     * The new name "Names Cells" doesn't make sense; if we change the
> >       name then to "Named Expressions", but not to Names Cells.

@eike: why 'Named Expressions'? 

> >     * May make more sense in the Insert menu, because named expressions
> >       and ranges more often are document global than sheet local.
> >       However, Insert isn't the exact functionality, but Sheet isn't the
> >       exact functionality either.
> 
> It was renamed to 'Name Cells' in my June 11th patch as a user is defining a
> name for a group of cells on the current sheet or globally for the
> spreadsheet. 'Naming Cells' is another possible as that is what we use in
> the help - https://help.libreoffice.org/Calc/Naming_Cells
> 
> Yes its hard to always know the best possible place to put it, but if i had
> to choose between insert and sheet, it would be sheet, as the Insert menu
> contains elements that are visibly seen and inserted in a sheet, while
> defining a name to a group of cells is more like setting a reference on a
> sheet.
> 
> >   * Cell Comment
> >     * Has an unselectable blank first submenu entry that probably should
> >       read "Insert Comment".
> 
> It was named as 'Edit Comment' in my June 11th patch.
> 
> > * Edit
> >   * Protect Spreadsheet
> >     * Why was this renamed from Protect Document? Spreadsheet is
> >       confusingly similar to Sheet.
> 
> The use of document in libreoffice is primarily linked to writer, as we have
> 'Writer Document' in the start center and we have 'Text documents' in the
> open dialog. While calc has 'Calc Spreadsheet' in the start center,
> 'Spreadsheets' in the open dialog and ODF Spreadsheet in the save dialog. I
> doubt users would not know the difference between a spreadsheet and a sheet
> and if they dont, it is a good opportunity to teach them the difference by
> using the word spreadsheet more.

I think people will simply understand Protect document. No need to change that.

> >       * The entries immediately above are Merge Document and Compare
> >         Document.
> 
> Yes those would likely also need to be changed.
> 
> >     * It is very unfortunate to move the Tools' Protect Document menu
> >       entry that had a submenu with Document and Sheet away from the
> >       Tools menu AND split it up and scatter over two different menus
> >       AND rename the entries. Imagine how confused users will be who
> >       want to use the functionality. Already I was when I wanted to
> >       unprotect a document..
> 
> Yes it would be a change for users who have already know where things have
> been, but that is the case with any change. Better organized menus help both
> old and new users.
> 
> So is it better for a user to find protect sheet under Tools > Protect
> Document > Sheet or Sheet > Protect Sheet? Of course i would assume most
> users would simply use the sheet tab context menu for this rather than
> digging into menus.
> 
> Should protecting the contents of a spreadsheet from being changed be
> considered a tool or simply an edit function similar to tracking the changes
> being make to a spreadsheet? The tools menu has been known to be a dumping
> ground for functions that didnt seem to go into other menus rather than them
> truly being tools.

The big disadvantage, mentioned by Eike too, is that now protecting is split
over Sheet and Edit.
For such a situation, using Tools makes sense maybe?

Similar with Pivot Tables...
Now we have Insert > Pivot Table and Data > Pivot Table > .. 
Shrug.
Maybe it's better to have that in Data, where it is now.

Cheers,
Cor

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