[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Moving to LibreOffice 8?

Sat Apr 1 01:19:23 UTC 2023

I'm sorry I am not aware of the dynamics within the team. I like the 
exchange of ideas, sans insults and negative comments toward the person. 
And I agree our opinions are subjective, though we must try to be as 
objective as possible.

 From a marketing perspective, other than the product's features, we also 
consider the context of the users or prospective end-users -- the 
market. Italo's suggestion of using the number 8 for the version naming, 
I think, is a good idea. Usually, the market only responds to the 
campaign once the product is on the roll, though a version rename 
without a major or significant addition or change would be a hollow one. 
So, it calls for a more balanced approach where the developers and 
marketing team collaborate. Thanks, Stephane, for the list of the major 
changes to do for the next version.

Thanks!

Kelvene

On 2023-03-30 03:55, Stéphane Guillou wrote:

> /(I see that I replied to only one list, so just wanted to include 
> design and marketing. Sorry for the double-up.)/
> 
> Thank you all for sharing your opinion.
> 
> Please keep in mind that "a really big jump" or "a major innovation" 
> will always be very subjective and depend on personal areas of interest 
> or specialties, and I suspect that we will have dozens of different 
> opinions (and no agreement) if we ask what constitutes a feature that 
> is significant enough to warrant a major version number.
> 
> Concretely, here is the shortlist of things that, in my _subjective_ 
> opinion, are important in the upcoming version (somewhat similar to 
> László's):
> - availability on all major desktop platforms, including through 
> official app stores
> - advertise availability for ARM processors on Windows
> - build baseline bump
> - zoom gesture support
> - cementing of updated visual identity and improved theming following 
> the OS's
> - improvements in accessibility of documents, including accessibility 
> checked in sidebar and tagged PDF export by default
> - two new languages
> - multi-page floating tables
> - _maybe_ Skia by default on macOS
> - _maybe_ new Windows installer
> 
> Waiting for significantly "bigger" (again, very subjective) changes in 
> LibreOffice is a bit unrealistic, knowing the project grows and has 
> grown very organically.
> 
> In the end, I have no strong opinion about it. I just hope everyone can 
> remain respectful and understand that sometimes, decisions have to be 
> made, and I believe the marketing team, after some discussion with the 
> rest of the TDF team, the Design team and the ESC, are a good fit to 
> take such decisions, instead of heated conversations filled with 
> subjective opinions on what feature is or isn't important.
> 
> The recent interaction makes me think a year/month versioning scheme is 
> beneficial in that discussing version bumps will not be needed anymore. 
> It's definitely not worth getting insulted, and I am sorry Italo had to 
> be at the receiving end of that. And as Jorge said: let's not get 
> bogged down into something that is in the end quite trivial.
> 
> I do however want to say I appreciate and take note of input from 
> people like Regina (associating major releases with ODF releases, the 
> default standard we are proud of), Kelvene (cultural aspect of the 
> number), David (deciding early on to allow work on more disruptive 
> projects) and Nigel ("The universal office suite", highlighting our 
> strength in language and platform support).
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> On 29/3/23 21:36, Jaron Kuppers wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Italo that changing to version 8 makes sense and that it 
>> is a marketing decision. Office suite updates that become new version 
>> numbers rarely include much in the way of ground breaking innovation 
>> and waiting for some integration of some new 'ground breaking' feature 
>> does not make sense. Nor does waiting for ODF1.4 which is not a change 
>> in some way unique to LibreOffice. A new version can also be framed 
>> around the plan for that new version. What huge changes are we going 
>> to make during version 8? It does not have to be limited to what 
>> changes warranted a number change. I think universal accessibility 
>> warrants a number change and makes for great marketing.
>> 
>> Italo, the way people talk to you is not okay... know that you have 
>> the respect of many/most community members who trust in your marketing 
>> expertise. Many are quick to speak on a topic they have no formal 
>> training in.
>> 
>> My 2 cents...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jaron
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 5:14 AM Pedro Rosmaninho 
>> <mota.prego at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I would just like to counter what Eyal Rosenberg says. Version number
>> should be a marketing decision.
>> But I agree with his points that marketing must consider that major
>> innovations or missing features should be included with a major number
>> change otherwise said number change will fall flat.
>> The number 8 is a great opportunity so it shouldn't be wasted without
>> having something impactful when it is launched.
>> 
>> Regina Henschel <rb.henschel at t-online.de> escreveu no dia terça,
>> 28/03/2023
>> à(s) 15:40:
>> 
>>> Hi Italo,
>>> 
>>> the change from 6.x to 7.0 happens together with the change from
>> ODF 1.2
>>> to ODF 1.3. If the decision it to keep this kind of numbering, I
>> think a
>>> change to 8.0 should happen when LibreOffice starts support for
>> ODF 1.4.
>>> ODF 1.4 will hopefully be released end of 2024.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Regina
>>> 
>>> Italo Vignoli schrieb am 27.03.2023 um 19:11:
>>>> Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
>>>> purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real
>> innovator in
>>>> the open source office suite market, and the feeling of
>> journalists is
>>>> that we are forever stuck at 7.x.
>>>> 
>>>> We all know that the next version will not include any significant
>>>> innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from
>> the new
>>>> build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice
>> for Arm
>>>> processors on Windows (which has not been announced).
>>>> 
>>>> Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
>>>> "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as
>> LibreOffice for an
>>>> infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms
>> and all
>>>> operating systems for personal productivity.
>>>> 
>>>> This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6,
>> I won't
>>>> insist. I have received enough insults both public and private
>> for the
>>>> marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few
>> people, that I
>>>> am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the
>> decision on
>>>> the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like
>> people have a
>>>> very short memory).
>>>> 
>>>> Looking forward to your thoughts.
>>> 
>>> 
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> --
> Stéphane Guillou
> Quality Assurance Analyst | The Document Foundation
> 
> Email:stephane.guillou at libreoffice.org
> Mobile (France): +33 7 79 67 18 72
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