[libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2023-Feb-15
Eyal Rozenberg
eyalroz1 at gmx.com
Thu Feb 16 17:42:06 UTC 2023
Announcement 30 hours before the session is not announcement in advance.
People - who do not work on LibreOffice on a daily basis and may have
all sorts of things going on in their life - cannot be expected to
reply, let alone make themselves available, at 30-hours' notice. If it
were, say, a week - then you could say there's notice in advance.
Also, again, there's a difference between one issue by a person coming
up for discussion, and several, constituting most of the session.
As for the two topics - the shorthand minutes entries about them suggest
that the two issues were not discussed seriously, IMNSHO. At any rate, I
commented on the bug pages to address both new comments and the relevant
parts of the session minutes.
Eyal
On 16/02/2023 9:07, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> the meeting agenda is always announced in advance. This time it was on
> Wednesday what I assume to be possible for you. You could have sent a
> notice to postpone a topic.
>
> Flagging tickets as to-be-discussed sounds easy but adds noise to the
> report and wouldn't solve your problem.
>
> For the two topics from yesterday I think one was unanimously
> resolved/NAB and the other considered to not benefit the modification.
> Please don't understand input from UX as a gatekeeper to the
> development, you are free to reopen tickets and seek for response from
> other people.
>
> Cheers,
> Heiko
>
> On 15.02.23 22:41, Eyal Rozenberg wrote:
>> Heiko, you again scheduled bugs of mine for a discussion without
>> taking a moment to check whether I can join the meeting.
>>
>> I asked you not to do that and I'm asking you again. This is unfair,
>> especially after I've explicitly asked that you not do that.
>>
>> The treatment of these bugs is usually entirely different based on
>> whether I attend the session or not. What seems to happen when I'm not
>> there is that the case for the issue is not made seriously, and thus
>> objections or claims which I would probably be able to convincingly
>> rebut or disprove are stated and accepted with no retort or objection.
>>
>> Now, I won't deny that this is not something specific to bugs I file:
>> A user who does not have design committee participant support from the
>> get-go, and who does not attend a committee session, will often not
>> have any participant serve as the advocate or champion for that bug /
>> that user - and may not get a "fair shake" in the evaluation of their
>> bug.
>>
>> The difference in my case that you know that I can occasionally - but
>> not always nor most times - attend. And session agendae are announced
>> just a single day in advance, and not on the relevant bug pages - so,
>> not enough time for me to notice. Finally, it is usually the case that
>> multiple bugs I have filed are placed on the agenda for the same
>> session, i.e. there are "Eyal's filings sessions", which are scheduled
>> without me being able to react.
>>
>> This is quite inappropriate and I again ask that you stop doing that.
>> Either ping me before scheduling my filings, or make the announcement
>> a good number of days in advance.
>>
>> Also, and for the benefit of other bug filers, it would not be a bad
>> idea to post a comment on the pages of bugs which are about to come up
>> in committee, about the upcoming committee session.
>>
>> Eyal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15/02/2023 22:21, Heiko Tietze wrote:
>>> Present: John, Cor, Heiko
>>> Comments: Stuart, John, Pedro, Rafael
>>>
>>> Tickets/Topics
>>>
>>> * Styles Preview should be able to show a grid of list
>>> styles (Tabbed UI)
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153525
>>> + a "More..." button could open the Stylist in the
>>> sidebar (Stuart, Heiko)
>>> + could be a small expander button on the lower right edge (Cor)
>>> + strong support for a Tabbed NB in general and completely
>>> implemented features in particular (John, Pedro, Rafael)
>>> + take the full space is easy to achieve, expanding into a list
>>> might a bit more difficult
>>> => do it
>>>
>>> * Most bundled page styles are nonsensical and/or redundant
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153534
>>> + every single page style has a use case (Cor)
>>> + never had any problems with the list of page styles (John)
>>> + the (small) list can also be filtered (Heiko)
>>> => resolve WF/NAB
>>>
>>> * Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600
>>> + label and help is clear (John)
>>> + labeling it "Next paragraph style" adds no information and
>>> it's reasonably clear what the dialog/label is talking
>>> about (Cor)
>>> => resolve WF/NAB
>>>
>>> * Editing:- Feature Request "go to - special" feature needed
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149933
>>> + introduce function to search for special content like blanks,
>>> constants etc. sounds like a good idea (Cor)
>>> + would be a comfortable shortcut for many searches (Heiko)
>>> + alternatively we could have a special entry in the sidebar
>>> + would be inconsistent as blank evaluates data while the
>>> existing Navigator options detect model content (Cor)
>>> => do it
>>>
>>> * Change "heading level" to "outline level"
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152605
>>> + see comment 14 for (tentatively accepted) proposal
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153499
>>> + use index level for index entry outlines
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153596
>>> + see also ToC dialog
>>> => consistency in naming is good, go for it
>>>
>>> * Permit "No User Input" as a data validation which would then
>>> permit filter sorting
>>> + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149497
>>> + reasonable request
>>> + (Standard/Auto-) Filter work on protected sheets
>>> + Sorting should work too, at least optional (Cor)
>>> + afraid of data integrity issues aka references to a certain
>>> cell that changes after sorting (Heiko)
>>> + option should not be at data validation but at the
>>> protect sheet dialog among the other exceptions (Heiko)
>>> + has the drawback that it applies to the whole sheet (Cor)
>>> => allow users to permit sorting
>>>
>
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