<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all! </div><div><br></div><div> Let me add some comments. :)</div><div> </div><div> For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we were ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong project/community we were building. </div><div><br></div><div> On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project and product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of the users don't care about minor changes. </div><div><br></div><div> So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even without big changes. </div><div><br></div><div> Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?</div><div><br></div><div> I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk about big improvements.</div><div><br></div><div> Why release a version without big improvements? </div><div><br></div><div> That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big code improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the released product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread (or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean with consolidation.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity <<a href="mailto:nigelverity@hotmail.com">nigelverity@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-5834136641865994622">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Hi Gustavo</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
This is a very good point.</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6, say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0 far more quickly, if for no other reason that the
psychological one of wanting to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my current version.</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Of course release notes are available to determine what really has changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
The discussion of the different motivators for development and marketing people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor anybody in my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for very good reasons.</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Cheers</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Nige</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="m_-5834136641865994622Signature">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i><font size="2"><span style="font-size:9pt"> LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite:
</span><span style="font-size:11pt"><a href="https://www.libreoffice.org/" title="https://www.libreoffice.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">LibreOffice Website</span></a><br>
</span></font></i></div>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"></span></font></i></div>
<i><span style="font-size:9pt"></span></i>
<div style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i><font size="2"><span style="font-size:9pt"> Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data</span></font><span style="font-size:9pt"></span></i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_-5834136641865994622appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-5834136641865994622divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <<a href="mailto:gbpacheco@gmail.com" target="_blank">gbpacheco@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 April 2023 22:05<br>
<b>To:</b> TDF Devs <<a href="mailto:libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org</a>>; TDF Marketing <<a href="mailto:marketing@global.libreoffice.org" target="_blank">marketing@global.libreoffice.org</a>>; TDF Design <<a href="mailto:design@global.libreoffice.org" target="_blank">design@global.libreoffice.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
<div>Hi Eyal, all!<br>
<br>
I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D<br>
<br>
I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation (if we<br>
have, for sure it will be better).<br>
<br>
IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are<br>
getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and<br>
individual profiles).<br>
<br>
I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but thinking<br>
about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this version<br>
could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Gustavo<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg <<a href="mailto:eyalroz1@gmx.com" target="_blank">eyalroz1@gmx.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I respectfully disagree with Italo.<br>
><br>
> First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such as<br>
> major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing<br>
> decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is<br>
> declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"<br>
> before being "marketable".<br>
><br>
> It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users<br>
> receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t. version<br>
> numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for coverage.<br>
><br>
> A second point is that bumping a version number without a major<br>
> innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say, Firefox<br>
> and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning<br>
> whatsoever. Italo, you said we are perceived as a "real innovator";<br>
> well, when a real innovator starts having hollow version number bumping,<br>
> that perception fades.<br>
><br>
> Finally, everyone who likes the marketing potential of version 8 -<br>
> great, but - keep that benefit for when we have a significant step<br>
> forward to celebrate. Don't squander it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Eyal<br>
><br>
> PS: availability on a new platform is not a reason to bump a version<br>
> number. It's the "same" software, but built for another target, so same<br>
> version as before. IMHO anyway.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 27/03/2023 20:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:<br>
> > Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing<br>
> > purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in<br>
> > the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists is<br>
> > that we are forever stuck at 7.x.<br>
> ><br>
> > We all know that the next version will not include any significant<br>
> > innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the new<br>
> > build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm<br>
> > processors on Windows (which has not been announced).<br>
> ><br>
> > Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the<br>
> > "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for an<br>
> > infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all<br>
> > operating systems for personal productivity.<br>
> ><br>
> > This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't<br>
> > insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for the<br>
> > marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that I<br>
> > am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision on<br>
> > the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have a<br>
> > very short memory).<br>
> ><br>
> > Looking forward to your thoughts.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: <a href="mailto:marketing%2Bunsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org" target="_blank">marketing+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org</a><br>
> Problems?<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div>