[Mesa-dev] Drop scons for 20.1?

Thu Feb 27 00:54:02 UTC 2020

I'm on vacation this week. When I get back next week we'll talk about this
again at VMware. Unfortunately, integrating a new build tool into our
infrastructure here can be pretty difficult.  But I totally understand the
appeal of getting rid of SCons.  Please hold on a bit...

-Brian

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 2:04 PM Kristian Høgsberg <hoegsberg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:16 PM Jose Fonseca <jfonseca at vmware.com> wrote:
> >
> > > but it bothers me how we keep not making a decision on this. If we'd
> said, "let's keep it and support it", that would something.
> >
> > I'm surprised there's any doubt.
> >
> > SCons works great for us.   Meson gives no immediate benefit for us
> other than headaches.  If we cared about nothing but ourselves, we'd keep
> SCons indefinitely, until it became a pain.
> >
> > The only reason we don't stubbornly put the foot down is that we
> understand that having one single build system would be beneficial the
> whole community, and of course we appreciate all the work Dylan and others
> did to get Meson to work on Windows, so we'd like to get there one day.
> >
> > That said, I don't understand why the rest of the Mesa community putting
> a gun against our head to abandon SCons.
> >
> > Aren't we maintaining the SCons build?  Since when in Mesa community are
> some entitled to start remove code that still works, is used, and
> maintained by others!!!!????
>
> Nobody is entitled to remove the code, that's why we're having this
> discussion. And I bet it's frustrating for you to have to deal with
> this again and again, but on the other side, it's frustrating to see
> this issue come up again and again with no evident progress
> whatsoever. What has happened on your side since the last time this
> was discussed? When is that "one day"? How are we supposed to move
> this forward without bringing it up?
>
> As for removing code that works - we do that All. The. Time. We
> refactor subsystems, IRs, entire drivers get rewritten and replace the
> working code that was there before, in order the lower the maintenance
> burden, run across more platforms, shader a compiler pass, reduce
> techincal debt etc.
>
> Kristian
>
> >
> > Jose
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Kristian Høgsberg <hoegsberg at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 18:37
> > To: Jason Ekstrand <jason at jlekstrand.net>
> > Cc: Rob Clark <robdclark at gmail.com>; mesa-dev <
> mesa-dev at lists.freedesktop.org>; Dylan Baker <baker.dylan.c at gmail.com>;
> Jose Fonseca <jfonseca at vmware.com>; Brian Paul <brianp at vmware.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Mesa-dev] Drop scons for 20.1?
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:15 PM Jason Ekstrand <jason at jlekstrand.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > +Jose & Brian
> > >
> > > I'm not personally opposed but I also can't remember the last time I
> had to
> > > fix the scons build. I think it's been years. Maybe that's because I
> don't
> > > work on GL anymore? In any case, I don't know that it's really costing
> us
> > > that much given that basically none of the drivers actually build with
> it.
> > > But fat meh, I guess.
> >
> > Maybe it is a bit meh... I did the MR to remove SCons and it's smaller
> > that I thought it would be:
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgitlab.freedesktop.org%2Fmesa%2Fmesa%2F-%2Fmerge_requests%2F3955&data=02%7C01%7Cjfonseca%40vmware.com%7C6b2e8f2abc98458d18ad08d7baeb0443%7Cb39138ca3cee4b4aa4d6cd83d9dd62f0%7C0%7C1%7C637183390863817583&sdata=96lM4flW9ja6fJG95nlNdmftNiYpajxpg0Il850%2FDLk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > but it bothers me how we keep not making a decision on this. If we'd
> > said, "let's keep it and support it", that would something. But
> > whenever it comes up, Dylan maybe fixes something on the windows
> > build, we talk about trying to switch Windows to meson and then...
> > nothing.
> >
> > Also, we've had this unfortunate split between Linux and Windows build
> > systems where autotools suck on Windows and nobody on Unix ever had a
> > reason to use SCons.  With meson we've picked something that's a
> > legitimate improvement on both sides, get's us back to one build
> > system and done more than due dilligence to make it work on Windows
> > and we're not taking the last step because... meh?
> >
> > Kristian
> >
> > > --Jason
> > >
> > > On February 25, 2020 21:56:30 Rob Clark <robdclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It looks like we have 4 scons build jobs in CI.. I'm not sure how
> much
> > > > that costs us, but I guess those cycles could be put to better use?
> > > > So even ignoring the developer-cycles issue (ie. someone making
> > > > changes that effects scons build, and has to setup a scons build env
> > > > to fix breakage of their MR) I guess there is at least an argument to
> > > > remove scons from CI.  Whether it is worth keeping a dead build
> system
> > > > after it is removed from CI is an issue that I'm ambivalent about.
> > > >
> > > > BR,
> > > > -R
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 3:42 PM Kristian Høgsberg <
> hoegsberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> It's been a while since Dylan did the work to make meson support
> > > >> Windows and there's been plenty of time to provide feedback or
> improve
> > > >> argue why we still need scons. I haven't seen any such discussion
> and
> > > >> I think we've waited long enough.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let's drop scons for the next release and move things forward?
> > > >>
> > > >> Kristian
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> mesa-dev mailing list
> > > >> mesa-dev at lists.freedesktop.org
> > > >>
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> > > >
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> > >
> > >
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