<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 10:24 AM Simona Vetter <<a href="mailto:simona.vetter@ffwll.ch">simona.vetter@ffwll.ch</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Dec 19, 2024 at 05:09:33PM +0100, Michel Dänzer wrote: > On 2024-12-19 10:02, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > > How this would be used in practice is also way too underdocumented. We > > need to document that exact-round-up 64b is more restrictive than > > any-multiple-of 64b is more restrictive than 'classic' linear. We need > > to document what people should advertise - if we were starting from > > scratch, the clear answer would be that anything which doesn't care > > should advertise all three, anything advertising any-multiple-of > > should also advertise exact-round-up, etc. > > > > But we're not starting from scratch, and since linear is 'special', > > userspace already has explicit knowledge of it. So AMD is going to > > have to advertise LINEAR forever, because media frameworks know about > > DRM_FORMAT_MOD_LINEAR and pass that around explicitly when they know > > that the buffer is linear. That and not breaking older userspace > > running in containers or as part of a bisect or whatever. > > > > There's also the question of what e.g. gbm_bo_get_modifier() should > > return. Again, if we were starting from scratch, most restrictive > > would make sense. But we're not, so I think it has to return LINEAR > > for maximum compatibility (because modifiers can't be morphed into > > other ones for fun), which further cements that we're not removing > > LINEAR. > > > > And how should allocators determine what to go for? Given that, I > > think the only sensible semantics are, when only LINEAR has been > > passed, to pick the most restrictive set possible; when LINEAR > > variants have been passed as well as LINEAR, to act as if LINEAR were > > not passed at all. > > These are all very good points, which call for stricter-than-usual > application of the "new UAPI requires corresponding user-space patches" > rule: > > * Patches adding support for the new modifiers in Mesa (and kernel) > drivers for at least two separate vendors I think this is too strict? At least I could come up with other scenarios where we'd need a new linear variant: - one driver, but two different devices that happen to have incompatible linear requirements which break and get fixed with the new linear mode. - one driver, one device, but non-driver userspace allocates the linear buffer somewhere else (e.g. from dma-buf heaps) and gets pitch constraints wrong > * Patches adding support in at least one non-Mesa user-space component, > e.g. a Wayland compositor which has code using the existing linear > modifier (e.g. mutter) This also feels a bit too strict, since I think what Daniel proposed is that drivers do the special LINEAR handling when there are variants present in the list of compatible modifiers for an alloation. Hence I don't think compositor patches are necessarily required, but we definitely need to test to make sure it actually works and there's not surprises. The exception is of course when non-mesa userspace allocates/sizes the buffer itself (maybe for an soc where the display is separate and the gpu has stricter stride constraints than the display). > Ideally also describe a specific multi-vendor scenario which can't work > with the existing linear modifier, and validate that it works with the > new ones. I think that's really the crucial part, because adding modifiers without an actual use-case that they fix is just asking for more future trouble I think. </blockquote><div> </div>It won't always "work" with the new linear modifiers, but when it fails, it will fail in a manner that is debuggable, understandable, and explainable by non-driver developers, such as getting 0 common modifiers between 2 devices. For example, the GUI can report to a user that DRI_PRIME failed because there are no common modifiers between the 2 devices, which is better than failing with an unqueriable difficult-to-handle reason (rejected pitch) or continuing with corruption (invalid pitch) or hangs (invalid pitch causing buffer overrun and corrupting shader binaries next to it). </div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"> </div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">Marek </div></div>