[Nouveau] Gallium driver and compatibility issues

[Uwe Bugla]

Am Freitag, den 12.03.2010, 12:52 +0200 schrieb Pekka Paalanen:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:40:34 +0100
> Uwe Bugla <uwe.bugla at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> > Am Donnerstag, den 11.03.2010, 13:23 -0500 schrieb Younes Manton:
> > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Uwe Bugla <uwe.bugla at gmx.de>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I use two nv34 cards and I would like to test / try out / use
> > > > the Gallium driver without drawbacks.
> 
> A multicard setup? According to
> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix
> that is not supported yet.
> 
> What do you mean "without drawbacks"? Have only the apps
> you select to use the experimental driver and all other
> apps to use the stable software renderer? Do not install
> nouveau_dri.so system-wide, then.
> 
> Note, that the Nvidia proprietary driver simply cannot live
> together with Nouveau like this.
> 
> > > > Unfortunately this has not been working since I decided to
> > > > install / compile nouveau drivers.
> 
> Problems are expected on the OpenGL front, if you install any
> of the experimental, unreleased 3D drivers.
> 
> > > > My system is Debian Squeeze, my kernel is 2.6.34-rc1.
> > > >
> > > > The problem is:
> > > >
> > > > Every time I load nouveau_dri.so into RAM existing
> > > > applications are broken / unusable (Example: gnome-games).
> 
> Without logs we cannot help at all.
> 
> > > > It does not matter if I overwrite existing versions of
> > > > libglut*, libGLw*, libGLU*, libGL*, libEGL* or not - that
> > > > does not make any difference.
> 
> Did you forget libglx? The X log would tell.
> 
> > > > The center of the problem is nouveau_dri.so and nothing else.
> > > >
> > > > Could it please be possible to modify this driver file so
> > > > that it does NOT continue to break existing applications??
> 
> Yes. That is called "development". It is what people are
> doing all the time. You whining about it does not make it
> happen faster. Quite the contrary.
> 
> > > Don't install nouveau_dri.so globally. When you want to try it
> > > with a specific application set
> > > LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH=/path/to/nouveau_dri.so in your env.
> > 
> > Thanks. Sounds plausible.
> > 
> > But:
> > 1. Udev decides which driver is being loaded into memory at boot
> > time. 2. I was asking for a _long term_ solution, not for a quick
> > short term workaround without changing the driver itself.
> 
> udev has nothing to do with this. Udev only loads the kernel
> modules. The 3D driver is not a kernel module, though it depends
> on Nouveau DRM.
> 
> The long term solution is *long term*. Nouveau still does not
> officially support 3D, although some reports of some 3D apps
> working exist.
> 
> The current advice is to *never* install nouveau_dri.so
> system-wide.
> 
> Also, you have failed to provide any logs nor descriptions
> about what is broken and how. Therefore we cannot help.
> My best guess is that you have parts of the prorietary Nvidia
> driver still in your system (e.g. libglx).
> 
> If you want to try things, do follow
> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
> and do not install the Gallium3D driver system-wide.
> 

Pekka,

although your answering style and niveau are a catastrophe I still try
to extract the positive parts of the traffic:

Lapse No. 1:
If I mention owing 2 nv34 cards this does not automatically mean that I
use a multicard setup.

"What do you mean "without drawbacks"?"
Lapse No. 2:
If you first read a message as a whole to try and understand the issue
as a whole you very simply can avoid questions like that one.
So FIRST try to understand the message as a whole, THEN start answering.

"Note, that the Nvidia proprietary driver....."
Lapse No. 3:
Misleading usage of expressions.
Everybody talking about the "Nvidia proprietary driver" in the graphic
card context of Nvidia cards normallly means the blob driver shipped by
Nvidia (closed source driver!) which does not have any problems with
stuff like Compiz or other 3D applications. I do not like blob drivers
for a whole bunch of reasons.
As you are definitely using the wrong expression it remains your
personal secret what you are trying to express or say.

"Problems are expected on the OpenGL front....."
Lapse No. 4:
I did not mention nearly all driver parts of the Gallium drivers
carrying the "GL" in their names just by chance. I reflect while I am
typing messages. I explicitly mentioned that the versions of the driver
parts carrying the "GL" in their names are NOT responsible for the
breakage that I reported.
Thus it still remains your personal secret what you mean by "OpenGL
front".


"Yes. That is called "development". It is what people are
doing all the time. You whining about it does not make it
happen faster. Quite the contrary."
Lapse No. 5:
If you want to be addressed like something utmost primitive
that noone appreciates or needs or wants then go on expressing yourself
like that.
If you want to be addressed like a human being, either immediately change
your style or simply shut up!

Lapse No. 6:
Instead of repeating the core message of my request for 4 times in this mail
(how insane!) I propose to change this page

http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto

in the following way:

1. Wipe off the following stupid idiotic crap:

"Warning : Nouveau's developers don't want people to build gallium drivers now, and do not support it at all.
They also don't want bug reports on gallium ATM.
This is code in rapid development. Bug reports for this are useless, as
it's known to be broken."

2. Substitute this goddamn crap with the following text:

Warning: If you decide to install and test the Gallium driver, do not
install it system-wide. Do use the software rastering driver as standard
driver (swrast_dri.so). For using / testing the Gallium driver please do
not forget to change your environment variable like that:
LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH=/path/to/nouveau_dri.so.


The broken application that I mentioned is the solitaire card game of
Gnome which appears in certain variants.

You can see the screen and the shape of the window, but the contents of
the window is nothing but illegible mud. You cannot see the cards, you
cannot see the values of the cards (A for Ass, Q for queen etc.).
Just a window containing nothing but junk opens.
And once again: The error is not hidden in some library file containing
the "GL" in its name, and the versioning of those GL files is also NOT
the problem.
It's the sources of the nouveau_dri.so file that do contain the bug.

Cheers

Uwe