[Openicc] new: Proof colour space setting

Kai-Uwe Behrmann ku.b at gmx.de
Wed May 3 02:52:42 PDT 2006


Hello Ann and all,

the idea of mine was to define a system wide proofing colour space, a 
profile, which can be used by applications as a predefined and optional 
activated profile for poofing on screen and print out. The proofing 
profile settings set and activate the simulation of a film stock or a 
intended printing condition (SWOP/ISOcoated).

Your idea is more about a single colour space, like PhotoGamut(?), in 
differenence to a general system setting.

Sorry if my head line was missleading you. I changed the head therefore. 

Of course feel free to continue this interessting toppic.


For the "proofing profile setting", hope this makes a difference now, I 
decided to add it to the Oyranos configuration settings.

kind regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann
                                + development for color management 
                                + imaging / panoramas
                                + email: ku.b at gmx.de
                                + http://www.behrmann.name


Am 02.05.06, 14:36 -0400 schrieb almccart at lexmark.com:

> Hi Jan-Peter and all,
> 
> I would agree that it needs to be a free choosable color space that is 
> independent of
> scanner, camera, monitor, types of RGB spaces and that is also independent 
> of any
> particular CMYK.  Note that Adobe RGB is a monitor type of RGB even though 
> it is 
> wide gamut.
> 
> Yes - I was thinking that a proofing color space would be an intermediate 
> between the
> source color spaces [e.g., Adobe RGB, camera Raw RGB] and particular print 
> related
> output spaces.  One question is how constrained should the gamut be? 
> Should it be 
> limited to a SWOP-like gamut? Or be like the ISO reference gamut - which 
> is a bit larger. 
> Another way of thinking about it is -- Would you want a proofing color 
> space to contain 
> the Pantone colors? Or to be limited to a subset of Pantone colors as many 
> real print 
> systems are?
> 
> I think you got the idea I was putting forth.  My question is - is that 
> what you and Kai-Uwe 
> had in mind?
> 
> Best regards,
> Ann McCarthy
> Lexmark CPD
> Imaging Systems Engineering
> ICC Workflow WG Chair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jan-Peter Homann <homann at colormanagement.de>
> 05/02/2006 01:41 PM
> Please respond to homann
> 
>  
>         To:     almccart at lexmark.com, OpenICC Liste <openicc at lists.freedesktop.org>
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        Re: [Openicc] new: Proof colour space
> 
> 
> Hello Ann, and all,
> Nice to hear, that leading ICC members are reading and posting to the 
> openICC list :-)
> 
> I think, your answer is two steps ahead, of the mail of Kai-Uwe.
> As I understand him, he want the possibility of a free choosable 
> proofing colorspace independent from the RGB- or CMYK-workingspace in 
> ICC aware open source applications.
> 
> As I understand your concept of an "proofing colorspace" as an 
> intermediate colorspace between widegamut colorspaces like 
> camera-profiles on RAW data or AdobeRGB and printoutput.
> 
> Finetuning of colors and saturation is done in the "proofing 
> colorspace", if the work is done, gamutmapping from "proofing 
> colorspace" to print output colorspace needs and can be done either with 
> relatice colorinteric and blackpoint-comepnesation or with ICCv4 
> perceptual gamutmapping, if the gamut of the "proofing colorspace" is 
> similar of a better "reference medium gamut" for ICCv4 profiles.
> 
> Do I understand your intentions correct ?
> 
> :-) Jan-Peter
> 
> almccart at lexmark.com wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Jan-Peter and all,
> > 
> > So -- if we were to define a 'proofing colorspace' what would the 
> > requirements be?
> > For example:
> > 1. RGB encoding
> > 2. Encompassing and similar in shape to the ISO printing gamut defined 
> > in ISO 12640-3 Annex B
> > 3. Not significantly larger than the ISO printing gamut defined in ISO 
> > 12640-3 Annex B
> > 4. Unambiguously defined transformations to/from CIE XYZ
> > 5. Primaries placed so that if the file is incorrectly assumed to be 
> > sRGB, severe hue shifts do not occur.
> > 6. Primaries placed so that HVS response to tone and hue adjustments are 
> 
> > reasonably homogeneous
> > throughout the space [i.e., perceptual isometry].
> > 7. Adapted white point, color space white point and black point 
> > chromaticity = D50
> > 8. Print-referred image state
> > 9. Adapted white point and color space white point luminance: 160 cd/m^2 
> 
> >   [=ICC PCS]
> > 10. Image surround - 20% of adapted white point
> > ...?
> > 
> > Does this represent a good initial list of attributes? 
> > Is there an existing public domain RGB that meets these criteria?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Ann McCarthy
> > Lexmark CPD
> > Imaging Systems Engineering
> > ICC Workflow WG Chair
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >                *Jan-Peter Homann <homann at colormanagement.de>*
> > Sent by: openicc-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org
> > 
> > 05/02/2006 07:41 AM
> > Please respond to homann
> > 
> > 
> >         To:        Kai-Uwe Behrmann <ku.b at gmx.de>
> >         cc:        OpenICC Liste <openicc at lists.freedesktop.org>
> >         Subject:        Re: [Openicc] new: Proof colour space
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello list,
> > A proofing colorspace would be very helpful.
> > I know  several photostudios, which are dealing with agencies, prepress
> > bureaus and print shops.
> > 
> > They are working in RGB and deliver RGB and CMYK-Files (ISOcoated) to
> > their clients.
> > 
> > Before they are converting to CMYK (ISOcoated) with relative
> > colorimetric and blackpoint compensation, they do a proof and optimize
> > the RGB-file, if colorclipping of saturated colors are occuring.
> > 
> > The goal is to build an archive of RGB-files, where all RGB-files can be
> > converted relative colorimetric with blackpoint compensation to the main
> >   destination colorspace, without the need to make image by image
> > analysis , which rendering intent fits best.
> > 
> > Most uzsers I know prefer to have a special menue for softproofing,
> > instead of doing it in the colorsetting file.
> > 
> > Very helpful is also, if the softproof menue is synchronized with the
> > menue "convert to profile"
> > 
> > If the softproof is OK, the file can be converted to the destination
> > colorspace with one mouseclick.
> > 
> > :-) Jan-Peter
> > 
> > 
> > Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:
> >  > Hello list,
> >  >
> >  > what would you think about a dedicated proof colour space?
> >  >
> >  > The current situation in CinePaint is: we have RGB/Cmyk image data 
> > and can
> >  > proof them to whatever colour space on screen. If someone wants to
> >  > simulate an special output device like a film stock or a print media, 
> it
> >  > seems there is no sense by sticking to the editing colour spaces
> >  > (RGB/Cmyk). It is not clear if the user wants a RGB or Cmyk colour 
> space
> >  > to proof against.
> >  >
> >  > It could as well mean the proofing options should become a separate
> >  > advanced configuration group.
> >  >
> >  > Whats the opinion on the list about this matter?
> >  >
> >  > regards
> >  > Kai-Uwe Behrmann
> >  >                                 + development for color management
> >  >                                 + imaging / panoramas
> >  >                                 + email: ku.b at gmx.de
> >  >                                 + http://www.behrmann.name
> 


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