[Openicc] What is exactly needed: Embedded Profile in CUPS raster !!

edmund ronald edmundronald at gmail.com
Tue Jun 7 01:16:10 PDT 2011

Of course, I do realize there are mainstream users :)

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:14 AM, edmund ronald <edmundronald at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes, these are the "objective" media-independent and print-size independent
> resolutions.
> When running a large-format art printer professionally, under production
> time constraints, the "normal" resolution employed will be very
> media-dependent, and I really don't think anything above 720 dpi is going to
> see much use for matte media.
> Knowing the media and print size is important because it informs the
> default choices which we should be presenting to the user. I hate to be
> harping about large format Epsons, but I would remind you that Linux started
> out as a hobby workstation Un*x OS for hobby users with crappy old hardware,
> but it then exploded into the universities where people wanted cheap seats
> without paying the Sun tax. I think the same thing will happen for us, when
> CMS actually works, and 16 bit gimp works, and printing works well, the
> graphics crowd who need additional seats without paying the Adobe tax are
> going to be our main constituency.
> Edmund
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:07 AM, Robert Krawitz <rlk at alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 09:31:14 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> >
>> > For Epsons, they consider 180 dpi and 360 dpi to be "Draft"
>> > modes. Anything higher, such as 720 dpi is "Fine" or "Photo".
>> It varies.  On printers like the 2880, 720 DPI is very good on most
>> papers and 1440x720 DPI is really good (the printer can use the
>> smallest drop sizes at those resolutions).  On the R1900, you need to
>> be up at 1440x1440 to use the smallest drop size, and that on a
>> printer that doesn't have light inks.  Light inks typically yield a 3x
>> reduction in grain, so the smallest drops on the R1900 are roughly
>> equivalent grain-wise to 4.5 pl -- bigger drops than the 2880 or 3880.
>> At 1440x720, the smallest drops on the R1900 are 3 pl, which is about
>> equivalent to 9 pl on a CcMmYK printer -- basically the same as the
>> Stylus Photo EX.  At 720 DPI, we have to use even larger drops --
>> about 7 pl smallest drop size, looking at the numbers.  That's better
>> than the Epson Stylus Color 3000 (10 pl), but not by very much.
>> (BTW, Gutenprint uses slightly different terminology: Fast Economy is
>> usually 180 DPI or so, Economy is about 360x180, Draft is 360,
>> Standard is 720x360, High is 720, Photo is 1440x720, Super Photo is
>> 1440x1440, Ultra Photo is 2880x2880, and Best is the very highest the
>> printer supports -- anywhere from 720x360 DPI on some ancient machines
>> to 5760x2880 on most of the current printers.  But it amounts to the
>> same thing.)
>> > On Jun 6, 2011, at 9:29 AM, edmund ronald wrote:
>> >
>> >> Chris,
>> >>
>> >>  With all due respect, and speaking as a photographer, I am very happy
>> with what comes out of my Epsons at 720dpi, and when printing on matte media
>> I don't run them any finer; the prints are of the quality *I* need.
>> >>  Proofing may require super-resolution over a huge sheet, because that
>> huge sheet is many many pages, but I believe fine art printing does not
>> always require hi-rez once one cranks up the format on textured media.
>> >>
>> >>  Edmund
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 6, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Richard Hughes wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On 6 June 2011 14:21, Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> wrote:
>> >> >> I'm unaware of any product that enables this inclusion of metadata.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the moment I'm working on another patch to GTK to be able to get
>> >> > the internal state of the print dialog, which data I can use in
>> >> > gcm-calibrate to add to the profile. I've still not decided on
>> >> > metadata names, but I'm figuring just using the cupsICCQualifier
>> >> > names, e.g. "cups_OutputMode" and then specifying lists using
>> >> > "Normal,Draft,Best" as the key value.
>> >> >
>> >> > From a technical point of view, I'm planning to use argyllcms to
>> >> > generate the profile, then open it in lcms in gcm-calibrate and add
>> >> > the few DICT entries we need.
>> >>
>> >> OK but I'd say an ICC profile for a "Draft" mode on a printer is almost
>> certainly useless. And might be questionable for "Normal". Almost certainly
>> useful to build an ICC profile for "Best". However, an Epson printer doesn't
>> use these terms, except for Draft. Everything else is "Fine" "Photo"
>> "Superphoto" etc. Or there are specific resolutions specified. I surmise
>> most inkjet printers are in the same boat, especially photo printers.
>> >>
>> >> So even if this information is included I'm not sure how helpful it is.
>> Draft and Normal may not have profiles for them at all. While Best might
>> need two or three profiles if there are multiple resolutions available
>> providing meaningful behavioral differences requiring unique profiles for
>> those settings.
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