[pulseaudio-discuss] Moving sources and sinks
nikbeier at gmail.com
Sun May 4 09:11:22 PDT 2008
2008/5/4 Tomas Carnecky <tom at dbservice.com>:
> Nikolai Beier wrote:
> > 2008/5/4 Tomas Carnecky <tom at dbservice.com>:
> >> Colin Guthrie wrote:
> >> > Tomas Carnecky wrote:
> >> >> Colin Guthrie wrote:
> >> >>> I disagree that this community is unresponsive. You just have to be
> >> >>> patient. Lennart is the main developer but he does not sit slavishly
> >> >>> reading the mailing list and responding immediately. He'll usually have
> >> >>> a big purge every couple weeks, but generally does respond to almost
> >> >>> everyone who asks something, unless someone else has jumped in already.
> >> >> PulseAudio + Wine is still a big no-no. Like described in my earlier
> >> >> mail to this mailing list (sent 24.2.2008) I've come to a point where I
> >> >> don't know any further and asked for help. Nobody answered. Not even to
> >> >> the ticket in PA trac or the ticket in the alsa bugtracker.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ubuntu now ships with PA enabled by default, which causes big troubles
> >> >> for those wanting to play games under Wine. I know the best solution
> >> >> would be to have a native PA driver in Wine, but that won't happen
> >> >> anytime soon. There are bugs in the pulse alsa driver. Fixing those
> >> >> shouldn't be such big problem for someone familiar with the inner
> >> >> workings of PA.
> >> >
> >> > What are the bugs in the pulse alsa plugin you refer to? There are some
> >> > feature limitations but they are typically down to what any ioplug
> >> > plugin is capable of.
> >> https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=2601 (see the
> >> comments made by wereHamster, that's me).
> >> http://pulseaudio.org/ticket/198
> >> > When I last looked at the wine alsa layer it was *really* nasty. It
> >> > didn't even open the "default" device, it would instead try to open
> >> > "default:0".... I think it was cleaned up a bit, but it should be very
> >> > simple for someone to rewrite it or write a direct pulse driver. The
> >> > main wine folks don't use PA so don't really care about this.
> >> >
> >> > If there is something in pulse that can be fixed, it shoudl be reported,
> >> > but as tonnes of apps out there work fine with pulse+alsa, I suspect
> >> > strongly (and this is based on actually having a quick peak at the code
> >> > a while back) that the problems lie at the wine end.
> >> There may be applications that work fine, but you only have to find a
> >> single app that works with native alsa and fails with alsa-pulse
> >> emulation to prove that there's a bug in your code. Wine is probably one
> >> of the more complex users of the alsa API, and therefore exposing bugs
> >> in alsa-pulse that other applications don't hit.
> >> I have patched the Wine alsa driver and the alsa-pulse plugin and sound
> >> works for me, tested in World of Warcraft and foobar2000. The Wine patch
> >> maybe isn't necessary. But the patch to alsa-pulse is required, see my
> >> comments in the alsa bugtracker or the PA ticket.
> > This case is a bit confusing. I have tried to look at the realted bug
> > reports this morning. (nothing seemed to have happened since
> > February).
> Yeah, because I posted all I know, my patches etc, and I've been waiting
> for someone familiar with the inner workings of PA to comment on the
> issues. As I said, sound in Wine works for me, but the patches I'm using
> I consider hacks and not a real solution.
> > There are mentioned two patches for Wine that should fix some of the
> > problems, like the bad hard coded defaults on names for default
> > devices and volume controls. (here: pulseaudio.org/ticket/198 and
> > winehq.org/pipermail/wine-patches/2008-February/050561.html ). I
> > wonder if they are included now? (Really a question for people working
> > on the wine code)
> The first issue with the device names seems to be fixed. As of March 4,
> 2008 Wine uses "default" instead of "default:0". The only patch to Wine
> I'm using now is the one I posted to wine-patches. That one was not
> merged into Wine - I haven't asked why. I'm not even sure it's
> necessary. I'll test without my Wine patch to confirm that. But the
> biggest problem seems to be the delay/latency computation in the
> alsa-pulse plugin.
> > What about Wines OSS and ESD output? If they work, it could be
> > recommended to try these if alsa output does not work.
> I disabled OSS support in my kernel, so I can't test paoss. It might
> work, but it would still be a workaround and not a real fix.
> > Note that there are reported separate problems with DirectSound
> Where did you see that? Where can I read more about that?
At http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/198#comment:7 (comment by
"proyvind", apparently testet with a patch that fixes both the
hardcoded volume control and the use of default:0 .
And here: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10910#c3 and
Oh, now I looked at the bug reports and got confused again. Is this
the key points? (Ses below:)
== Wine and the alsa plugin for PulseAudio (alsa pulse plugin) ==
PulseAudio normally takes control of the hardware through the device
driver/ALSA. Thereby the hardware "device" in ALSA is blocked for
other clients like Wine.
Perhaps Winealsa (the output driver for ALSA) needs direct hardware
access? Or it is/was just coded that way, but does not need to be. Or
it was never a problem?
Winealsa is now (may 4. 20008) fixed, so it uses the alsa device
"default" instead of "default:0" (or like numbers), and does not
require a volume control called PCM but uses the default volume
Finally there are the delay problem(s).
* "wereHamster" noted that the ALSA pulse plugin might set Wine in an
endles loop. http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/198#comment:8
* Some have notices large delays (like one second), which is tracked
back to some delay calculations in the ALSA pulse plugin.
If a gamer wants lowest possible latency, and does not need any other
app to play sound (like voice chats like "Teamspeak"), then they
should use pasuspender.
More information about the pulseaudio-discuss